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GSP500
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:19 am
by ghostrip
Looks like we have another 25m pistol. Walther presented GSP500 in IWA (and in their web site).
In an you-tube interview they state it is an evolution of the old reliable GSP. it will come in 22 and 32 flavors.
According to manual it has pneumatic damping.
From the manual and from pictures i believe it is refresh of the venerable Hammerli SP20 styled to look like current Walther 25m pistols (GSP form with SSP finishing touches). Magazines look they are from SP20 however trigger unit seems to be from current GSP (from a very quick look in the manual).
Grip is detachable (but no mention if it is adjustable for rake or angle) and frame is a single piece. Trigger unit is held with pins in frame which is open at the back exposing the adjustment screws.
interview is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHHxVIGKfy4
manual is here
https://carl-walther.com/uploads/media/ ... mplett.pdf
Re: GSP500
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 10:00 am
by Samson
Grip is detachable (but no mention if it is adjustable for rake or angle) and frame is a single piece
Not adjustable in any dimension as per German articles.
https://www.all4shooters.com/de/shootin ... tpremiere/
Honestly it's a bit of a letdown just going by the specs. Basically it's a Hämmerli SP20 RRS but with a GSP trigger and a detachable (but still not adjustable) grip.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:36 pm
by j-team
And you need tools to adjust the sights... Duh!
I doubt it will make a dent in Pardini sales.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:12 am
by Grippy
j-team wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:36 pm
And you need tools to adjust the sights... Duh!
Seems like a very minor nitpick? So you go to the range, you unpack your scope, fumble it onto the tripod, get out your ammo and open the pack, get your stopwatch, your bottle of water... but the tool to adjust the sights, that's just one step too far!
The adjustable grip thing only matters if you don't customize the grip. But then that's like buying glasses without a prescription. "yeah just give me the medium short sighted lenses". So it's not for everyone. But then not every product is always aimed at everyone.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:45 pm
by j-team
Grippy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 05, 2022 12:12 am
Seems like a very minor nitpick? So you go to the range, you unpack your scope, fumble it onto the tripod, get out your ammo and open the pack, get your stopwatch, your bottle of water... but the tool to adjust the sights, that's just one step too far!
Well, I've never "fumbled" my scope.
Steyr and Pardini have managed to put knurled knobs on their sights for 30+ years. Not hard to do.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:16 am
by Azmodan
why launch this new sport pistol, when walther already sells the SSP?
MSRP is 2400 euros, so it;s not like a cheaper market segment than the SSP...
Re: GSP500
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:07 pm
by rmca
I see very little top shooters with an SSP. A couple of days ago, in the P25 final in Cairo, 8 finalists, 8 Pardini's...
GSP is a known and trusted brand especially with older shooters.
If the new GSP500 is a worthy successor of the old GSP, and not just cosmetic, we might start seeing them more in the finals.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:29 pm
by Samson
Azmodan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:16 am
why launch this new sport pistol, when walther already sells the SSP?
MSRP is 2400 euros, so it;s not like a cheaper market segment than the SSP...
Because the SSP has failed. It was Walther's attempt at maxing out the ruleset using unorthodox design decisions (e.g. a 153mm barrel where the Pardini has a 120mm barrel) and their own muzzle-rise mitigation system to compete with Pardini's "counterweight and spring" system. The explicit aim was to dethrone the Pardini SP RF.
At least as far as I can tell in western Europe it never really got going, mainly for two reasons:
1. It's muzzle rise characteristics were considerably worse than that of the Pardini SP RF.
2. At larger events you
will find a Pardini booth with one of their gunsmiths. The amount of end-user support they offer is unrivalled in elite competition ISSF events. Walther, not so much.
So TLDR: it shoots worse, the end-user support was worse and it's a bit of a diva - and since all the elite shooters were already set in a well-supported system with their SP RFs, they never bothered with the SSP.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:23 am
by Grippy
Azmodan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:16 am
why launch this new sport pistol, when walther already sells the SSP?
MSRP is 2400 euros, so it;s not like a cheaper market segment than the SSP...
On the other hand, why not. The GSP design is ancient and Walther presumably has the Hämmerli designs lying about. Not everything new needs to be mindblowing and revolutionary. It's not like the market is saturated with reliable .22s.
I noticed this in our club recently when new people asked what to buy. There is no good answer anymore.
Morini, MatchGuns have a reputation of being exotic and or finnicky.
The SSP is finnicky and expensive.
The FWB AW93 is uh... no clue? Uninspiring I guess? Seems to be the kind of gun where nothing specific is wrong with it but no one seems to care for it at the price.
The only thing anyone dares to recommend is a Pardini SP. Except of course it's super expensive.
So as long as the GSP is even just mildly more affordable and turns out to be reliable there is probably a market for it? Even if this modernization is just so people don't feel they are paying modern prices for a design from the sixties.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:15 am
by ghostrip
For the gsp500 to succeed it must be as good as Pardini when firing with good support in world cups.
A lower price would help but only if shooters actively change from their current equipment to gsp500 and get results. (win on Sunday sell on Monday).
Otherwise it wont succeed.
Since it is based on the SP20RRS/280 i wonder how much baggage this brings.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:16 am
by Grippy
I'm not sure world cup success matters for "the masses"? At least here in Switzerland basically no club shooter pays active attention to top level competition. Discussions about what guns to buy overwhelmingly focus on reliability.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:26 am
by Grippy
The manual and page 11 shows how there are "holes for weights" around the barrel. Suspicously like on the Pardini SP. So unless those are very short you could reproduce the Pardini recovery system. Since all that is is a bunch of similar holes that you put springs and weights into.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:28 pm
by sparky
I'd rather have a Walther KSP200 (pretty IZH-35). There's an idea; the patent has probably expired, and it's not like anyone is going to get any from Russia for awhile.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:35 am
by Azmodan
it's highly unlikely that a company sells 2 products that compete with each other in the same market segment. (the price of the SSP ,the GSP500 and the Pardini SP seems the be the same). walther also still sells the GSP Expert for now, but that is cheaper...
so the SSP is/was a failure? the design is nonredeemable?
Grippy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:23 am
Azmodan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:16 am
why launch this new sport pistol, when walther already sells the SSP?
MSRP is 2400 euros, so it;s not like a cheaper market segment than the SSP...
On the other hand, why not. The GSP design is ancient and Walther presumably has the Hämmerli designs lying about. Not everything new needs to be mindblowing and revolutionary. It's not like the market is saturated with reliable .22s.
I noticed this in our club recently when new people asked what to buy. There is no good answer anymore.
Morini, MatchGuns have a reputation of being exotic and or finnicky.
The SSP is finnicky and expensive.
The FWB AW93 is uh... no clue? Uninspiring I guess? Seems to be the kind of gun where nothing specific is wrong with it but no one seems to care for it at the price.
The only thing anyone dares to recommend is a Pardini SP. Except of course it's super expensive.
So as long as the GSP is even just mildly more affordable and turns out to be reliable there is probably a market for it? Even if this modernization is just so people don't feel they are paying modern prices for a design from the sixties.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:45 am
by Samson
Azmodan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:35 am
so the SSP is/was a failure? the design is nonredeemable?
Unfortunately no, I don't think it's redeemable the way Walther would like it to be. Then again, we need to consider the context - it's a perfectly fine target pistol and if you're not shooting ISSF rapid fire, it's arguably a competitive/superior gun to the Pardini.
What it's not is a target pistol with enough advantages over the Pardini in elite-level 25m rapid fire pistol to make athletes at large go "yeah I'll spend 3k, change my entire routine and ditch my SP RF for that". For that it has too much muzzle rise, is too finnicky and lacks the support infrastructure.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:06 am
by deadeyedick
I just left Walther site and the SSP as well as the old GSP are both missing. Does this mean that the SSP has been discontinued ?
Re: GSP500
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:55 pm
by Leon
Why, oh why Walther do you cover your target arms with that shitty blue?
Re: GSP500
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:58 pm
by Leon
deadeyedick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:06 am
I just left Walther site and the SSP as well as the old GSP are both missing. Does this mean that the SSP has been discontinued ?
I think the arrival of the GSP500 certainly signifies the demise of the GSP Expert and SSP/E.
SSP/E owners can now expect a very rapid decline in the resale values of their guns.
Re: GSP500
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:40 am
by j-team
Leon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:55 pm
Why, oh why Walther do you cover your target arms with that shitty blue?
It's to match the mood of the buyer once they realise it still isn't as good as a Pardini...
Re: GSP500
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:48 am
by JamesH
Is it aluminium or polymer frame?