TargetTalk

Hello,

I have been a small bore and air rifle shooter for over 32 years (high school / college / coach a high school team now) and want to start shooting air pistol (less gear and easier on the body – ha). I have shot some with a borrowed pistol (FWB) but want to get more serious.

Looking for advice on what pistol to get - brand, etrigger vs non etrigger etc...…ready go….

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Get the sexiest one possible and use the heck out of it! Any choice is a good choice! I use Morini electric and Steyr electric equally, but i must say, its nice that the Steyr remains motionless upon release.

Scott wrote:Hello,

I have been a small bore and air rifle shooter for over 32 years (high school / college / coach a high school team now) and want to start shooting air pistol (less gear and easier on the body – ha). I have shot some with a borrowed pistol (FWB) but want to get more serious.

Looking for advice on what pistol to get - brand, etrigger vs non etrigger etc...…ready go….

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Depending on where you are in Texas, I'd go talk to Neal Stepp at International Shooters Service:

http://www.iss-internationalshootersservice.com/

He's in Fort Worth, and he should have examples of most of the major high end pistols in stock that you can check out. He should also have different grip sizes you can try. He sells Feinwerkbau, Hammerli, Morini, Steyr, and Walther.

Gwhite - yep, that is next on my list - a trip to Neal's - only about 30 min from him and unfortunately he has taken a ton of my money over the past 30 years - HA. I guess he will get more soon......

I suspected as much. If you've been shooting air rifle, I was certain he had lightened your wallet before.

I've had difficulty meeting Neal. I live about an hour and a half from him and tried to go to his place a few years ago. I called and he told me to come the next day and to call him at 2pm when I was in the area and he'd give me the address. So the next day I drove an hour and a half so I would be nearby at 2pm. I called. No answer.

Scott, it does not matter, they're all the same, I have had nearly every pistol in my possession, they're all good, as long as it's a model used by competitive shooters. While I'd probably recommend a Steyr EVO, or the LP10, over the others, it has a very good balance (very still in the hand because of a good balance), you may really want some other gun for whatever reason.

I shot my best scores with LP1, its front sight jerks more than lp10, but I find its behavior predictable in my hands so I shoot it better.

I like my LP10. "Old school" by 2017 standards now that the EVO model has come out but still very competitive and easy to use. Not exactly motionless when fired but it's a huge upgrade to anything I've ever shot before.

I 100% agree with Hundert. It really doesn't matter. Get something that you feel is the pistol you want to use.

I was just at Neal's shop on the 31st. He spent a couple hours with me letting me try different air pistols, great service!
The FWB P8X was the best fit for me.

Chia wrote:I 100% agree with Hundert. It really doesn't matter. Get something that you feel is the pistol you want to use.

I am wondering if there is a rule of thumb as to when to upgrade from single pump Izzy to PCP. I have been working my Izzy hard, and I know it can outshoot me any day, but I am having trouble getting much above 500...that was my goal for the year, to break 500 on a halfway consistent basis, and I have about made it, but now seem to be at a plateau, with even some recent retrograde movement. I recall reading advice against shopping for match grade pellets until you were shooting (530?...560?...), but am wondering if the same sort of advice applies to pistols. I understand you cannot buy scores, just wondering. btw, although an older newbie, I cannot say I am unduly tired after a 60 shot match. The day I signed up for two consecutive relays, and shot my old single pump FWB 602 after shooting the Izzy, that was a different story, a bridge too far.
If the advice is to upgrade, it will mean either selling off some stuff or starting a piggy bank for next year. Or both :-)

If you can't shoot over 500 with a Izzy, you probably won't do with a PCP or Co2 pistol. They are not much 'easier' to shoot but easier to tweak (a thing I feel newbies shouldn't overly do). I think the rule of thumb is: 'buy it if you have the money'.

Bolted in a vise (assuming you can figure out how to cock it...), the IZH will put 60 shots well inside the 10 ring. However, the question is: why aren't you able to do that without a vise? Once you have the fundamentals down, it's all about how well the ergonomics of the pistol suit YOU.

If you are shooting around 500, you need to figure out what is holding you back. A coach would definitely help. If you think it's the IZH, what are the issues? The IZH factory grip is one-size-fits-none, but is designed to be carved. Is it too muzzle heavy? Too much work to pump for 60 shots? Is the trigger not set up well? The IZH trigger has a lot of adjustability.

If you don't know what is going on with your shooting, you should definitely figure that out before you just got out & buy new hardware. For example, if you look at your targets, do the scores go down over the course of a match? if so, then you are probably getting tired, and a PCP might help. Are your shots spread left-to-right? That is usually a grip issue (yours, or the pistol's or both). A PCP won't solve that, although getting one with a good fitting grip could help.

Can you call your shots? If you can & they go where you think they should, then the pistol may not be a large part of the problem.

Hmmm. Can one shoot great scores with the IZH-46M? Yes. Would I choose to compete with one, today? No. Why, do you ask?

I learned to shoot handguns with a black powder revolver in the 1970's. Procedure: Clean the pistol. Charge the chambers. Insert and seat ball ammunition. Insert percussion caps. Fire. Reset.

Today, cap and ball competition is uncommon. Centerfire has taken over due to ease and consistency. Most of us reload at home, aiming for meticulous perfection.

Both the IZH-46M and a cap-n-ball pistol are excellent tools. The questions one needs to ask themselves: Are you competing equally on the line with someone shooting a similar pistol? Are others shooting more advanced technology that gives them an advantage you cannot obtain from your current tools?

From a bullseye shooters viewpoint the reloading of centerfire ammunition certainly equates to the precharging of a PCP air pistol.

Each competitor must choose the correct tool for themselves, for each situation. Choosing a tool based on another's predjudices is a prescription for failure.

Morini 162EI

Gwhite wrote:Bolted in a vise (assuming you can figure out how to cock it...), the IZH will put 60 shots well inside the 10 ring. However, the question is: why aren't you able to do that without a vise? Once you have the fundamentals down, it's all about how well the ergonomics of the pistol suit YOU.

If you are shooting around 500, you need to figure out what is holding you back. A coach would definitely help. If you think it's the IZH, what are the issues? The IZH factory grip is one-size-fits-none, but is designed to be carved. Is it too muzzle heavy? Too much work to pump for 60 shots? Is the trigger not set up well? The IZH trigger has a lot of adjustability.

If you don't know what is going on with your shooting, you should definitely figure that out before you just got out & buy new hardware. For example, if you look at your targets, do the scores go down over the course of a match? if so, then you are probably getting tired, and a PCP might help. Are your shots spread left-to-right? That is usually a grip issue (yours, or the pistol's or both). A PCP won't solve that, although getting one with a good fitting grip could help.

Can you call your shots? If you can & they go where you think they should, then the pistol may not be a large part of the problem.

I think a trigger adjustment would help, my trigger finger first segment is at an angle to the trigger, seems like the length of pull should be shortened a bit. And I have never had any coaching, so that would be a good start.
I can usually call shots, with the occasional surprise, but I attribute that to inattention.
My scores usually improve as I progress through the match, so I don't think I am tiring. I have been trying to shoot a 60 shot course every day in my basement. It does seem a bit muzzle heavy, and when I correct for a too deep dip, I sometimes over-correct, or put some 'flip' into it, and I know that is going into the white. Anytime I use my wrist for correction, it seldom ends well. Arthritis in the base of the thumb can sometimes distract, the grip is less than ideal, but I have nothing to compare it to.
Could I travel down to Cambridge sometime for some spot analysis? :-)

Ed333 wrote:
I think a trigger adjustment would help, my trigger finger first segment is at an angle to the trigger, seems like the length of pull should be shortened a bit. And I have never had any coaching, so that would be a good start.
I can usually call shots, with the occasional surprise, but I attribute that to inattention.
My scores usually improve as I progress through the match, so I don't think I am tiring. I have been trying to shoot a 60 shot course every day in my basement. It does seem a bit muzzle heavy, and when I correct for a too deep dip, I sometimes over-correct, or put some 'flip' into it, and I know that is going into the white. Anytime I use my wrist for correction, it seldom ends well. Arthritis in the base of the thumb can sometimes distract, the grip is less than ideal, but I have nothing to compare it to.
Could I travel down to Cambridge sometime for some spot analysis? :-)

You are shooting better with your Izzy than I am with mine. I got to try an lp10 for about a week and I didn't shoot better scores with it. I did find it had a much better balance than the Izzy, but I think training with the Izzy will help to strengthen my wrist and help me learn not to over correct, but I don't know for sure. As far as correcting from too deep a dip, I am currently trying to discipline myself to bail out of those shots, but it's difficult. I was wondering if that is the right approach, or if I should be trying to train myself to be able to correct in such situations.

ihasagun wrote: You are shooting better with your Izzy than I am with mine. I got to try an lp10 for about a week and I didn't shoot better scores with it. I did find it had a much better balance than the Izzy, but I think training with the Izzy will help to strengthen my wrist and help me learn not to over correct, but I don't know for sure. As far as correcting from too deep a dip, I am currently trying to discipline myself to bail out of those shots, but it's difficult. I was wondering if that is the right approach, or if I should be trying to train myself to be able to correct in such situations.

I think the advice I have seen is to bail out and start all over. I need to work on that, avoid the temptation to 'just get it done with'...

Rover must be out of town. He hasn't chimed in yet. The crank pistols are nice. They are accurate. But 60 times in a match becomes a bit redundant.I have an FWB102.Love it. I don't compete with it. First pistol was FWBC60 CO2. Paid $600 for it. Yes CO2. Purchased a 5lb. CO2 bulk tank at a local welding shop. I shoot it the best. A fill is good for way more that 60 shots. For some reason it works for me. Only had one incident with the CO2. That was at Camp Perry when I left it in the trunk of my car. I have a Morini 162 and an MG1. Purchased them all used. They are all 10yr old pistols.I don't know anyone who has worn out an air pistol. This is part of the journey. Finding what works for you. Find a nice used C02 or PCP pistol before you ante up for $2500 top line PCP.

The collegiate team I help coach starts the guys out with IZH's. The women shoot Tau-7's (CO2). When they break 500 in a match, we upgrade them to PCP. Some students do this within the first month or two of shooting, others take the better part of a year. Others get discouraged after a while and go off to pursue other activities.

Practice is an hour, 4 days a week, with all the coaching they can absorb. There usually isn't a huge jump in scores when the guys switch from an IZH to a PCP, but not having to pump the pistol for each shot allows them to concentrate more on developing a good shot process. Things typically improve in small fits & starts from there, with occasional setbacks.

By the time they are seniors, the good shooters score in the mid-500's. It's not easy, because once they can score better than 500 in air pistol matches, they start shooting .22 disciplines (standard, sport & free), and have to divide up their practice time. They also have a lot of distractions & interruptions with schoolwork & lengthy breaks when they can't practice. They probably only get a little over 7 months of shooting each year, and have to get back into good form every fall.