TargetTalk

Can anyone help answer my question? When I was in high school I was on the rifle team. Later I also shot in a few high power NRA matches. Now 45+ years later (I'm 61), every time I participate in a club rifle match my prone scores are worse than my kneeling scores and when finished shooting I have to 'roll off the table' we shoot prone on, because my back is spasming so bad. The next day my neck is stiff and sore. If all you got is 'you're getting old', thanks :-) I hadn't thought of that.
Seriously, anyone have any suggestions other than practice more to keep more limber.
Thanks

Question, do you have a little larger belly now? If you do, you have to arch you neck more now to get into position.

An old neck injury started acting up for me, belly was part of the issue too but a good massage therapist and a chiropractor got the spine and muscles to a point I had the mobility I needed, lost a little on the belly too. By the time I was ready to start shooting rifle again I had taken up bullseye and haven't gone back to do any rifle competitions yet.

- Dave

I am not a rifle shooter, I am a pistol shooter.

But I do know the most accurate position for rifle is prone.

Last week, I was shooting rifle prone at my friend's 15 acre range. I just could not get into a comfortable prone position !!

Until my friend show this Tom Cruz shooting scene from movie Jack Reacher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJHABeHNrV8

Look at 4:00 to 4:10

Pay attention, Cruz did not get on his knees, then move into prone position.

He lie face UP, turn onto his SIDE. Once balanced, then ROLL over. Right knee up a bit to let belly breathing easier.

This was my Ah-ha moment shooting prone in his range.

Question, do you have a little larger belly now? If you do, you have to arch you neck more now to get into position. Nope, in fact I've lost 45 pounds.

An old neck injury started acting up for me, belly was part of the issue too but a good massage therapist and a chiropractor got the spine and muscles to a point I had the mobility I needed, lost a little on the belly too. By the time I was ready to start shooting rifle again I had taken up bullseye and haven't gone back to do any rifle competitions yet. Never have had a neck injury, to the best of my knowledge, but a good massage might be in order.
Thanks for all who have replied.

I can think of two possibilities, and neither is very good, but it's better than "you're getting old". One, you may be having back problems because of weak core muscles. This could lead to disk issues that have not become apparent until you extend your back for an extended period. Two, you may have arthritis and/or stenosis of the spinal column. This is what I have, which makes standing for a pistol match quite a challenge, and I can assure you that I would not last a prone match. Try some naproxen a couple of hours before shooting prone. Or, what works for me, stick an ice pack on your back for half an hour before shooting. I'm not an MD but I have experience with back pain. For the lumbar area, an ice pack inside your belt. For higher up, maybe hold it in place against the seat while driving to the range.

I am 65. I am fit, I take 2 mile runs every other day, only weigh 75 kilos. No way could I shoot prone. My neck just doesn't bend that far any more and I would have difficulty getting back up. Shoulder no longer can support a pistol either. I just shoot standing rifle and love it Another 10 years and I may just be sat at the scoring table. Sorry my friend but you may be getting there too. Get some physiotherapy but be prepared to adapt to other positions.

seamaster wrote: Pay attention, Cruz did not get on his knees, then move into prone position.

Actually most prone shooters do get into position from their knees; and many Olympians will sling up while they are kneeling, not when on the ground. Tom Cruise is not an international authority on competitive rifle shooting. Rolling may make it possible to get into position for those with limited mobility, but it won't prevent pain once you are holding the rifle. As others have suggested, this is often due to restricted neck movement.

To the OP, it may be worthwhile seeking medical advice, and certainly to seek coaching advice. it's possible that your position is exacerbating any problems in your back, and you just got away with it while you were healthy/more limber.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll follow up with the doctor at my next visit in about 6 months. No shoots til then anyway. :-)

Raising the sight line with risers may help. My scope is just 4mm lower than my irons. Irons i can shoot all day comfortably but scope is causing pain and spasms. Im going to fix that this winter.

Maybe yr position is too high. Lower position gives straighter back and neck
Besides that how often do you shoot prone?
I have backsores next day too when I dont shoot prone often. That suggests its a muscle training issue as well

seamaster wrote:Pay attention, Cruz did not get on his knees, then move into prone position.

He lie face UP, turn onto his SIDE. Once balanced, then ROLL over...

That would resemble a mass cetacean stranding in our range!

I’d consider starting yoga classes to develop better flexibility. The added benefits of relaxation and heart rate lowering cannot hurt your shooting (or just plain general health) either. Quality yoga instructors will be able to tailor a program for you, talk with them about your goals—don’t just jump into some beginners class and risk injuring yourself.

I suffered an injury when I was a shooter and had to compete in a couple of matches kneeling in the prone stages while I was recovering. It’s not a perfect solution, but if nothing else works it will keep you shooting.

"Quality yoga instructors will be able to tailor a program for you, talk with them about your goals—don’t just jump into some beginners class and risk injuring yourself."

The operative words are "Quality yoga instructors" Really seek out an instructor that will do the homework to study what you need. This will be one piece of the puzzle to help you get to your full potential.

Just roll over. Your occiput, c-spine, t-spine, l-spine, hip are all aligned, without undue compression.

Knees first, spine squeeze is for limber, young, gung-ho guys.

For us, elderly whales, just rolling over is much easier.

It is OK to look like a beached whale, as long I am comfortable.

Growing old is not for sissies !

Take a look in the article 'Ashley Adams: Shooting for the stars' it used to contain a video of Ashley Adams, Olympic disabled 50m prone shooter, how he gets in prone position from his wheelchair. Very educational. I copied his system when my legs were fully paralised (Guillain-Barre syndrome). http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/200 ... 633207.htm
The video seems to be removed but I will try to attache some pictures I once took from the video

He first slides down from wheelchair to the floor, sits with back to target, pulls one leg over the other with hands, then rolls over to his belly and then lies in position facing the target.

Albert T
(The Netherlands)

pistol champ wrote:"Quality yoga instructors will be able to tailor a program for you, talk with them about your goals—don’t just jump into some beginners class and risk injuring yourself."

The operative words are "Quality yoga instructors" Really seek out an instructor that will do the homework to study what you need. This will be one piece of the puzzle to help you get to your full potential.

Amen to that. Just because a place offers yoga does not mean their instructor is qualified beyond owning a pair of tights and watching a couple of you tube videos. Find a person with a degree in exercise science, physical therapy, exercise physiology or even athletic training.

Ashley Adams' story is inspiring. I feel less embarrassed just rolling over into the prone position now.

C'est la vie. Good to learn from the tough ones.

An aside question: in that Tom Cruz/ Robert Duvall movie clip, when Tom Cruz asked for a few practice rounds, Duvall gave him one. After Cruz shot that one, Duvall yelled, "Play Ball ! " What type of round is that? Why just one shot?

You may just want to check your position. Or have someone knowledgeable help you get into position to verify everything is good.

I am much younger, but when I was shooting Highpower (around 40), some matches I had neck pain and others I didn't. Also, my sitting scores were higher than prone. I went to practice at the local range one day and was having the same neck pain when I shot. Another shooting pointed out a few things with my position. We worked on it, and by the time I got into a better position, the neck pain went away.

My Pennies worth is to get down without a rifle and experiment with high and low positions, head up or lower and relaxed. If you find something comfortable you could get someone to pass you a rifle while in that position.

Personally I find getting set up in the kneeling position gets my sling hand set up better behind the handstop and the sling coming over the back of the hand/wrist correctly. And then using the right hand to lower yourself down in the correct angle to the Target.

Hope you find some help, this from someone who has had back surgery!