TargetTalk

what custom .45 is the most accurate and dependable for bullseye...cost, no object.

If cost is no object, I have a custom .45 that is extremely reliable (1 alibi in as long as I can remember, and that due to ammo) and accurate (1.2" groups at 50 yards, and I recently shot an 887 and an 888 with it), that I could let you have for $26,995. I'll pay shipping and FFL fees.

I'm sure you will get a number of opinions on who's/what gun is best.

I tried a friend's Rock River last January then decided to purchase one. The test target came with a 1 1/4" group with most shots in 1" with a flier (first shot through the new barrel I'm told) that made it 1 1/4. Cost was about $2500 with 4 mags and a rib with iron adjustable sights. The friend who's gun I tried actually works at Rock River part time. So I picked his brain and talked to the gunsmith before purchasing.

A friend who wants to get into bulls eye just ordered a Rock River. He did a lot of research and was pretty set on a Baer or other "big name" but decided on the Rock River. I'm very happy with mine.

You didn't ask but you will also need a .22. I had a Ruger MKII already so I used that for starters. I recently decided to purchase a Pardini SP Bullseye. I love it. I also got the .32ACP conversion to go with it. Haven't shot the .32 much yet but have been following the efforts to get it to shoot lead reloads. I am having a problem with ring movement with the .32 and plan to get the Larry's Guns rails that attach to each caliber conversion.

In the cost, no object area, a lot of the cost is looks. Looks don't shoot.

Joey Chambers, Bob Marvel, Cabot, what's the guys name who makes the funny lockup muzzle, these come to mind on the high end cost.

But I will take my Toyota any day. Plain, no frills, and highly accurate and reliable.

I would check out KC Crawford (KC's Kustom Creations). He's a retired 2112 that knows how to build a 45. He buils both ball guns and Wadcutter guns, so take a look at his website.

jackh wrote:what's the guys name who makes the funny lockup muzzle,

Travis Strahan's Accu-Lock?

you might check out Accuracy X as well, cost no object.

I recommend checking with Greg Derr at derrprecision.com. Go to his website and look at some of the work that he has done. He does have a waiting period, as most all the top smiths do. Greg is a member of the guild and will build you exactly what you want. He does beautiful work.

Don't overpay.



One of the big issues in which gun works the best for you is set up.

If the set up is wrong for your hands, or your fingers, all the money in the world won't make a difference.

It is always best to work with a gunsmith who asks the right questions about your grip strength, arm strength, and the length of your fingers, and can set up the gun so it will be right for you.

If you have smaller hands, that may very well include a custom trigger shoe.

Sometimes the best option is to buy a used gun, See how a gun set up for someone else works for you. Then order a custom gun that incorporates the things that work for you, and modifies those characteristics that don't.

There is no "one" but there are many that can shoot High Master scores if you do your job. Even an "off the shelf" Les Baer wad gun should be able to take you to High Master.

- Dave

I have a 1911 in 9MM built by KC it shoots under 1.25" at 50 yards.

I suggest KC as well. But if money is no object, David Sams http://samscustomgunworksusa.com/homepage.html will make you a fine pistol if your are patient. Rock River also makes excellent pistols; they tend to lack frills but shoot very well. Another interesting maker is Harp Custom http://www.harpcustom.com/custom-1911-gallery.html. Also, Jerry Keefer is a well recognized 1911 smith and maker of bullseye pistols http://americanpistolsmithsguild.com/me ... keefer-jr/.

Sweet to have so many choices. Dipnet

I imagine if you're giving out a blank check, I'd think you could get Jerry Keefer to build you up the Lamborghini of 1911 target pistols.

Joe Chambers at Chambers Custom. All day, every day!

Don't forget the Pardini GT45
One of the best and reliable 45's out there.
Plus great accuracy. You need large hands, because it's a double stack.
Another benefit is you can get a 9 MM slide for it.
Extremely popular in Europe for IPSC. Fabulous trigger, better than a 1911.
Cost with a dot is around $3,000.

Plus, there is Accuracy X, I have no real proof of there claims, but they claim to be the best.

I did a lot of research on this

In addition to cost wait, time is also a factor for me.

My list was narrowed to about four guys in the country

KC Crawford
Joe Chambers
Roddy Toyota
Jon Eulette
and
Dave Sams

The only one I did not interview was Toyota, although no one has a bad word to say about him.

Accuracy X was a little pricey but I would put them at par with the above. Their claims are real and one of the reasons why you got to a custom guy is testing and validation. If they cannot test it for you at these prices you are just wasting your money, get a les baer.

Narrowing it down a little further was waiting time, Sams and Crawford were about a year. (Accuracy X too)

Now for pedigree Dave Lange Shoots Sams and Zinns shoots Crawford's guns (and I suspect he has Crawford accuracy and trigger jobs on even Zinn's Cabot guns -they are friends.)

I selected KC because I like him but Sams is a great guy too. KC is an expert at roll triggers. Sams has a great scope mounting system both will make a gun that shoots under 2 inches at 50 years all day long. Sams Blues is guns, Crawford Uses Parkerization, Accuracy X is Stainless and I just think that is not great for a Wadcutter although my Dad was a big proponent of Stainless.

I have a Chambers 22lr now shoot great, but the wait on Wad guns is about 4 years and the price may be more than $7500. Like Marvel he makes a very pretty gun. But frankly outside of the Army and Marines Armorers the only guys that have won consistently at the National Matches are Sams, Jon Eulette and Crawford.

Alternatives to a new wad gun are getting a used gun with a pedigree and test target. A used Madore will cost you about $1500

An other Alternative is George Carell he is about 82 years old but still makes nice guns about 1/2 the cost. He was a former member of the USAMU I know of at least one of his guns that broke a National record.

People have a hard time making Pardinis print at Bullseye loads and I would try one before you commit to buy. I think even Pardinni would suggest for bullseye is getting their 22/32 unit and shooting 1911 45acp

Ttgoods wrote:I did a lot of research on this

In addition to cost wait, time is also a factor for me.

My list was narrowed to about four guys in the country

KC Crawford
Joe Chambers
Roddy Toyota
Jon Eulette
and
Dave Sams

The only one I did not interview was Toyota, although no one has a bad word to say about him.

Accuracy X was a little pricey but I would put them at par with the above. Their claims are real and one of the reasons why you got to a custom guy is testing and validation. If they cannot test it for you at these prices you are just wasting your money, get a les baer.

Narrowing it down a little further was waiting time, Sams and Crawford were about a year. (Accuracy X too)

Now for pedigree Dave Lange Shoots Sams and Zinns shoots Crawford's guns (and I suspect he has Crawford accuracy and trigger jobs on even Zinn's Cabot guns -they are friends.)

I selected KC because I like him but Sams is a great guy too. KC is an expert at roll triggers. Sams has a great scope mounting system both will make a gun that shoots under 2 inches at 50 years all day long. Sams Blues is guns, Crawford Uses Parkerization, Accuracy X is Stainless and I just think that is not great for a Wadcutter although my Dad was a big proponent of Stainless.

I have a Chambers 22lr now shoot great, but the wait on Wad guns is about 4 years and the price may be more than $7500. Like Marvel he makes a very pretty gun. But frankly outside of the Army and Marines Armorers the only guys that have won consistently at the National Matches are Sams, Jon Eulette and Crawford.

Alternatives to a new wad gun are getting a used gun with a pedigree and test target. A used Madore will cost you about $1500

An other Alternative is George Carell he is about 82 years old but still makes nice guns about 1/2 the cost. He was a former member of the USAMU I know of at least one of his guns that broke a National record.

People have a hard time making Pardinis print at Bullseye loads and I would try one before you commit to buy. I think even Pardinni would suggest for bullseye is getting their 22/32 unit and shooting 1911 45acp

This is an excellent analysis of the issues, and waiting times. Dave Salyer also deserves a mention, he is an excellent gunsmith and personal friend.

Currently I shoot a Chuck Holt Marvel Precision conversion on a dedicated lower for rim fire.
A Dave Salyer 1911 9MM for Center fire, and a David Sams 1911 45. All shoot equally well.

Chuck Holt is particularly good at doing a roll trigger. David Sams does them as well, but they are usually so smooth, they feel crisp. When they get dirty you can feel the roll. :-).

So money is no object? Only $50,000 and you get two .45s!

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=211 ... cb29368a68

:-)

Chip

ChipEck wrote:So money is no object? Only $50,000 and you get two .45s!

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=211 ... cb29368a68

:-)

Chip

drooooool!, I wonder how much the buyers premium is??

- Dave

I agree with Isabel on Dave Salyer,
He built me a 1911 9mm that's as good as any out there.

How come I don't see Ed Masaki's name on the list.......

I recieved a new Springfield Armory wad gun this past April. Two months later I set a slow fire record with it 50 yards, 197-11. I've shot a couple more 196's with it also. The gun is awesome. Holds X ring all day with my hand loads and with factory GM Federal 45 Ammo.
They cost around $2,000 (some less) and take 9-10 months to get. Service is tops. The Custom Shop employees are the nicest around. A new Springfield Armory Custom Shop wad gun is a perfect choice. Good price. As accurate as any out there. They make it to your specs. there are plenty of great choices, and Springfield is one of them from my point of view.