Pardini HP 32, ammo talk

[beeser]

The Hornady bullet is actuallyy too small. No,lead bullets smaller then 0.314" have had any succes, to my knowledge. Some of us are even running ours closer to or at 0.315".

I'm not questioning anyone's success with the .314" or larger bullets, it just doesn't make sense or sound right that the cartridge is headspacing on the shoulder of the bullet instead of on the case mouth. If that doesn't matter then I'm probably making much ado about nothing. As for the Hornady XTP, this is the bullet that I've had the tightest groups so far, factory or reload.

[oldcaster]

The SWC bullets do headspace on the case mouth. They can be a few thousandths in front of the case and the lead will engage the rifling. People here have had varying results with how much is best. I leave about .010 but I haven't experimented back and forth because it worked the first time.

If you are shooting fairly hard bullets, it better be about exactly the diameter of the barrel but if they are fairy soft, they can be about .001 too small or around .002 too large without problems in most situations. Anything more than .001 too small or even possibly around that can cause flyers. There is a good possibility that you are swaging down your lead bullets because the cases are not expanded enough. Pull one and find out.

All the cases that I have been using for lead bullets are now too large for a jacketed bullet plus, if I did want to load some, I would have to change the expander and adjust my crimp. It would be hard to load lead and jacketed with the same equipment and either one or both would suffer because of not being correct for the application.

When I first started, I had a different expander for .313, .314, and .315. I was constantly adjusting everything and finally settled on .314 but there are no guarantees and your gun might like .315 better because several here have settled on that size.

I didn't have very good results with factory XTP's and was doing better with lead even when I was still experimenting and not knowing where I was going to eventually settle. Factory got me around 2 1/2 inches 10 shots 50 yards. Even my 1 shot out of 10 flyers at that time were not that bad.

Lead is always harder to get to work, but the advantages are huge. The main ones are price and second is velocity. They can go quite slow and still be accurate but jacketed can't. Most of the time I can get the same accuracy out of either but in this case lead is better.

[gwpotte]

Using once fired Hornady brass improved the groupings of my Hornady XTP 60gr reloads (1.9 gr of VV N310) to be almost as good as the factory loads (x ring) at 50 yards in my gun. A definite improvement over using Remington brass.

However, the Hornady brass was no better than the Remington with the T&B 62gr lead SWC. Next step is to try an oversized (.332) 32 ACP sizing die on it's way from Lee. Lee tells me this is .003 larger than the standard .029 32 ACP sizing die. I have a Hornady sizing die and my brass come out .330. It makes sense that brass would spring back a little and come out .330 from a .329 sizing die.
I am still trying to contact Lyman regarding a "M" die expander for a .314 bullet.

[Dipnet]

All,
What are the load data reported using Oldcaster's LSWC bullet (0.314 diameter) for Accurate No.2 and HP38 powders? I've compiled data folks have reported for various 32 ACP bullets and data from powder manuals in the attached pdf file. I would appreciate help in filling it out. As always, only use these data as a basic guide following safe loading protocols. Thanks, Dipnet

[Trooperjake]

I use AA2 with 2.0 for the Rimrock 75.
I only use it at 25 yards with excellent results.

[cjon600]

Hello all,
I have acquired some PPU .32 SW Long LRN 98gr bullets. The overall case length is too long for my pardini. It is loaded with 1.7 grains of a powder that looks like little thin square confetti.

My question is, can I just push the bullet head down into the case like this:



Or will this blow up my gun?

[beeser]

Hello all,
I have acquired some PPU .32 SW Long LRN 98gr bullets. The overall case length is too long for my pardini. It is loaded with 1.7 grains of a powder that looks like little thin square confetti.

My question is, can I just push the bullet head down into the case like this:



Or will this blow up my gun?

I don't know the direct answer to your question but why risk it when there's so little to gain? I wouldn't even think twice about using instead the right ammo for the gun.

[Rover]

NO! Because you will reduce the room inside the case. This will greatly raise the pressure.

To be honest, I don't know if it will matter with a very light charge in the .32.

I used to use a semi-wadcutter seated backwards and flush with the case mouth in my .44 Magnum pistol for shooting rabbits and grouse. This was with a light load of HP38. The purpose was to make an easily identifiable load using the same bullet as with a full power charge. The zero remained very close for both loads and wasn't too destructive on game.

I used to load one of these with five full power loads while wandering around when I lived in Alaska.

[oldcaster]

I think it completely depends on how hot these rounds are loaded. I expect that they are for a revolver, and rounds for them are always too hot for a semi auto European gun to begin with but since it is so long of a case, I doubt that it will change the load that much however as I said, they are probably too powerful for the gun already. I doubt it would blow a gun up because they are just as strong as a revolver but you may hurt the slide or frame from the slide banging back too quickly. If it was a 32 APC or 9mm I think it would be much worse because of the short case.

[Dipnet]

cjon600,
Jeez, never change a load by pushing the bullet down: that increases pressure with unknown consequences! DANGER WILL ROGERS!

If you want to load 32 S&W L wadcutters, you need to use a deep belling powder funnel as made by Dillon specifically for that cartridge (part 20064 for the 550B); seat the bullet flush with the case lip, and barely crimp. I've never loaded that round for Pardini pistols, but it is my understanding that they are vulnerable to blowing out the magazine when loaded too hot.

When loading for my former Walther GSP, I tried to overcome the slow twist by loading heavier bullets (98gr) and shooting them a little hotter, but this didn't work well at 50 yards. However, a friend swears that it worked well with 90gr Hornady wadcutters. Shooters are, however, known to stretch the truth every now and then. Hope this helps, dipent

[fc60]

Sure, let us know how it works out for you.

It could end up like the attached image...

Cheers,

Dave

[Dipnet]

fc60:
Ouch! Could you explain what happened. I assume that was a 32 S&W L? dipnet

[fc60]

fc60:
Ouch! Could you explain what happened. I assume that was a 32 S&W L? dipnet

It was not my pistol so I cannot say with certainty what happened. I suspect a "poofer" round did not clear the barrel and the next round fired.

Fortunately, I was able to remove the old barrel via end mills and several setups. The owner had friends in the industry to check the bolt with MagnaFlux and it was okay.

I machined a new barrel for him and he is shooting with us again.

In summation, the above had an equivalent of a 196 grain bullet and too much pressure. Seating bullets deeper, as suggested earlier, increases pressure a lot and is something I would not try.

STICK TO THE LOADING MANUALS! Those folks know what they are doing.

Cheers,

Dave

[Dipnet]

All,
I had a so-so day at the range testing loads using the 62gr. LSWC bullets (0.314) at 50 yards using a ransom rest. I may not have had the pistol properly seated in the rest, or there may have been a problem with adapting the rest base to the concrete benches at my club's range. All of the 10-shot groups were vertically strung and ran 4-5 inches c-c (these were actually two 5-shot groups of smaller diameter that overlapped).

I'm not sure what I learned. I am going to rebuild the way the rest attaches to the concrete shooting benches to make sure it is absolutely ridged. I've been using Federal match primers and noticed that there was a relatively large amount of unburned powder in the spent cases when I deprimed them. So, next time, I am going to compare these loads: 1.80gr Titegroup, 1.50gr. Titewad, & 1.60gr. VV N310 (all with Federal brass, OAL=0.880 & crimp=0.333) with Federal, CCI, and Winchester primers.

I tapped one of the lead bullets through my barrel and it measured 0.313 inches across the lands. I've measured the diameter of Hornady XTPs and they are 0.311, which makes me wonder how they can be so accurate? Have any of you slugged your barrels? What barrel diameters have you measured?

The groups may tighten up using 0.315 bullets (I'll get a small sample of these from Travis). One thing that really stuck me was the incredibly small sd's obtained with Titewad powder (see attached test data). Also, I thoroughly cleaned the barrel to remove any leading and subsequent close inspection revealed that the barrel was never lapped, which surprises me (image below shows striations on lands). Any thoughts, suggestions. Thanks, dipnet

[Rover]

Since it doesn't appear to matter much what your barrel diameter is, why don't you you firelap it yourself. Use bullets proven to be crappy. It doesn't get any cheaper than that.

[Dipnet]

Rover,
That's the first thing I thought of, but after reading about recent reports on fire lapping tests, the benefit of slightly increased accuracy appears obviated by increased throat wear. At least that the controversy. Granted, that may not be an issue in 32 ACP. I just don't know. I would have to hear from knowledgeable gunsmiths before I did this.

The folks at Pardini were not able to get back with a detailed response to my inquiry but I gather this may be the way they release the barrels. You have to look at the lands under slight magnification (~10x) to see the cross striations. Maybe they are no big deal. I do know they are not on my 22 barrel and I don't need no stinking Ransom Rest to put CCI paper box into the Xring off a sandbag.

Any rate, further load experimentation needed to see if I can hit the 2-inch realm at 50 yards. Dipnet

[beeser]

The Pardini SPBE in .32 ACP is developing into a big disappointment for me. PardiniUSA is no where to be found and has been a zero source of help. Brass for this caliber is harder to find than the hardest to find powder. And ....

[Rover]

Since you're not happy, what matter if you mess up the barrel.

I know I've been happy with the results on my TOZ FP and one of my S&W 41 barrels. It did eat the throat of my .270 a bit, but greatly reduced fouling and accuracy is good. A .44 Mag. S&W I did worked great. I don't do this to all my guns, though.

[Dipnet]

Beeser,
Hold on there buddy; you've got a great target tool that you will enjoy when you get it dialed in. Progress is being made. First, here are the contact phone numbers for the Pardini folks: Alex Chichkov 813-468-7500, Vladimir Chichkov 813-748-3378, Emil Milev 813-361-3534. They have sometimes been slow responding to emails, but they always pick up their phones. Emil is a teacher and is available in the latter part of day. It's best to call Alex or Vladimir in the morning (they train in afternoon for national and international matches).

Every gun barrel is different. Look at the success of Oldcaster and Sharp shooter: they have their guns dialed in. I've cleaned a number of targets in timed and rapid fire with the pistol; no problem at 25 yards. I still don't have the right combination at 50 yards. It is frustrating that the brass is rare (nobody anticipated demands for 32 ACP brass); most makers only made seasonal runs of the stuff. You just have to keep hunting for it. I found one of the range brass sellers who agreed to pull Federal nickel brass for me ($50 for 500 pieces; Leobrass). I believe Remington and Magtech will have new runs of brass in the near future.

If you are trying the 62gr bullet, ask Travis for sampler packs of 0.313, 0.314, and 0.315 diameters. Then set up an block/trial experiments where you reload different combinations of powder, bullet, primer, OAL, and crimp. Honestly, if you don't have a Ransom Rest, I think you can dope out good loads with careful shooting from some sort of rest. I use a Hi-skore shooting rest that I modified by taking off the rear part of the rest and attaching a wood base (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/356740 ... oting-rest). It works pretty well.

Any rate, when you do get it doped out, you will have a lovely combination of the same trigger for 22 and centerfire. My scores went up by about 60 points when I moved to a Pardini (my old model 41 was spitting out alibis, not brass and that gets in your head, especially when you did well). What I did not mention is several of the loads I tried, the 5-shot groups looked very promising, but the combination of two groups spread out. Ransom Rests are notoriously finicky for 1) consistency of tightening the pistol in the inserts, and 2) how ridged the rest is mounted to the shooting platform or base.

So, don't give up just because it's been hard for us to get our 32s dialed in. I think Oldcaster has a lot more time to work in it. Cheers, dipnet

[Dipnet]

Rover,
Interesting. The idea is intuitive. First, I'm inclined to rebuild the Ransom Rest base, redouble my attention on setting up the pistol in the rest, and test some new bullet diameters and primer combinations before making modifications to the barrel. They ain't cheap.

If none of that works, I'll have a little chat with the Pardini folks (and I'll have data to share). After all of that, I'd consider polishing the barrel. Your success is intriguing and as I said earlier, I doubt if throat wear will be a problem in 32 ACP. But if I'm wrong, Lord knows I want a gunsmith or barrel maker to chime in. Cheers, dipnet