Pardini HP 32, ammo talk

[Trooperjake]

T & B bullets makes a LSWC 32? What is the weight?
I only see a round nose.
Looks like the bullet for 32 ACP combat style pistols.

[beeser]

T & B bullets makes a LSWC 32? What is the weight?
I only see a round nose.
Looks like the bullet for 32 ACP combat style pistols.

It's not on T&Bs website yet. He just made a preliminary run for those that expressed an interest earlier. This is the one that member oldcaster worked on having a custom mold made. It looks like an H&G 68 design.

[Murph]

I casted my own version of these. Excellent results. I recommend anyone who is loading for their Pardini 32acp, to order some and try.

[Trooperjake]

Murph
I just got my mold from Accurate.
Still setting up the area to cast.
Please PM me on the load and results you got.
Will I see you at Perry?
Marty

[gwpotte]

I received some lead SWC bullets from T&B bullets yesterday. They are not on his website yet, but if you call, Travis will send / sell you some. They look good and I weighed about dozen and they all were between 61.9 gr and 62.1 gr. I have some VV N310 powder and Remington brass and loaded some up today for testing (1.7 gr and 1.8 gr of VV N301 and .870 COAL). I hope to test them tomorrow at 50 yards.

George

[beeser]

I received some lead SWC bullets from T&B bullets yesterday. They are not on his website yet, but if you call, Travis will send / sell you some. They look good and I weighed about dozen and they all were between 61.9 gr and 62.1 gr. I have some VV N310 powder and Remington brass and loaded some up today for testing (1.7 gr and 1.8 gr of VV N301 and .870 COAL). I hope to test them tomorrow at 50 yards.

George

What's the status on you testing?

[gwpotte]

The results were okay but not as good as I hoped. I am bench resting and using a Burris Fastfire red dot (no magnification). I think part of it was my technique as the groups got better as I shot more of them / i.e. my technique got better. Basically both 1.7 and 1.8 of VV N310 would hold the 10 ring at 50 yards, but the 1.7 would group 4 or 5 shots tighter and spread the rest more. I only loaded 20 of each to try, so I need to load some more and repeat / refine my results. Hopefully I will have some time this week. One problem I had with reloading (which may be affecting my results) is the T&B SWC bulllets fit really tight in the brass and need to be forced in. I use a standard Hornady full length sizer die (.330) and the standard Hornady expander, but that expander is geared for the .311 Hornady 60 gr XTP bullet not the .314 T&B 62 gr SWC.

Old Caster mentioned using a custom .314 expander. Where can you buy one of these?

I have not had a chance to clean the gun and check for leading yet.

I also bench rest tested some factory Hornady 60 gr XTP and was amazed they (10 rounds) would hold the X ring at 50 yards. My Hornady 60 gr XTP reloads (1.9 gr of VV N310) have about twice the spread of the factory loads, but noticably better than the T&B SWC at this point.

[beeser]

gwpotte - Your approach almost mimicked mine yesterday. I tried 1.6 grains of HP38 and 1.4 & 1.5 grains of Titegroup on the T&Bs. The HP38 was much better than any of the Titegroup loads. It was hard keeping it in the black with either of them and Titegroup produced a couple of stray shots. I also tried some factory Hornady 60 gr XTP and Hornady 60 gr XTP bullets with 1.8 grains of N310. The groups on these were almost identical and well within the 10 ring. I plan to load some more T&Bs but this time with N310 and maybe HP38 again. I'll try your loads on the N310. Incidentally, my last testing was during some moderate winds and I was using only iron sights.

[oldcaster]

I don't now how hard the bullets you bought are but it can make a difference. If they are in the range of 15 to 17 BHN you might not be swaging your bullets down with a tight case (best to pull one and measure it) but you may not get results as good as with a soft bullet. I have experimented a lot with soft and hard bullets and I never get results as good with hard bullets. However I have never tried them in the 32 long or 32 ACP so possibly they may still work OK.

I have heard that FC60, (Dave Wilson), will make you an expander but don't know if he is still doing it or how much it costs.

When I expand my brass, they are expanded too much to load a jacketed bullet and would fall into the brass. I also use a .002 larger die so I don't wear out my brass and it was bought from Lee. You have to call them as they are not on any web site.

It seems that each gun likes a little different load so experimentation is required in each gun.

You might check with Lee about an expander also. I saw some of them but don't know if they will work in this application. I think they are just an expander and won't flare the brass so two steps would be necessary.

My results with factory ammo were way worse than yours. I got about 2 1/2 inches 10 shot 50 yards with 8 power scope.

Someone on this site fixed their occasional mild flyer by seating their bullet a different depth so that would be worth a try.

[Trooperjake]

I have had a lot of luck with Accurate #2 with lead.
I use 2.0 with the 75 grain Rimrock lead bullet.
I use VVn310 with the XTP 60 and got good results.
I just received the 60 gr. mold from accurate molds, and will continue to use AA2.

I feel the VV310 is too fast burning for the lead round. Better for jacketed.
AA2 is much slower burning. #37 vs #7 for 310.
It is a very good metering powder.

When Old Caster sent me some of his bullets, to test, I had good results with #2.
I still have a pound left, now I need to find more.
Somewhere on this site is my results.

[oldcaster]

I always seem to have better results with slow powder too. I felt that faster might be cleaner and good results was gotten with Titewad by others so I tried it but it really didn't seem any cleaner and my results were not bad but not quite as good. When I came into 8 pounds of Titegroup I was happy to learn that it worked well in my gun but use whatever you happen to have first just to find out.

Accurate #2 is my go to powder for 32 long but with the ACP, it didn't seem to work for me. I think that following recommendations for types of powder by others can be helpful and may save time but apparently it often works for one and not the other which is why all of this writing back and forth is invaluable. Several people have been very instrumental in solving problems with this gun and it is good to hear from everyone no matter how insignificant it might seem.

[wes lorenz]

I always seem to have better results with slow powder too.

A question for the all; when using slower powders are you getting bulged cases?

[oldcaster]

When everything is working right in the 32 ACP Pardini, your cases will be bulged. The case is made for a bullet around .310 or so but the Pardini barrels are around .314. This is why I use a .002 larger sizing die. I want the cases to stay bulged. Slow powder however has nothing to do with bulging the brass. Since Pardini made these pistols with a large chamber, after several shots they will appear bulged even more than my large expander makes them especially toward the rear of the case farther than my expander goes.

[gwpotte]

Oldcaster
Travis from T&B Bullets tells me his SWC bullets for 32ACP are about 14 BHN in hardness. It is good to know about the bulging as I am seeing it after firing using VV N310 and the .314 SWC bullets. I also see some bulging at the case mouth around the bullet during reloading which I believe is from the forcing of the .314 bullet into the case. My next test will include some once fired Hornady brass which is thicker than Remington and the bullet bulge after reloading appears to be more uniform on the Hornady brass.

I will have to also try a .002 oversized sizing die from Lee like you have and a .314 expander to see if that will eliminate or give me a uniform bullet bulge.

I also noticed on Lyman's website that they have two expanding drop plug sizes for 32 cal for their powder charge/expanding die system. One (part # 7998215) for 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R for use with .313 - .314 bullets, and a second (part # 7998216) for 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R, and 32 ACP for use with .311 - .312 bullets. The first is not part of the standard set and needs to be ordered directly from Lyman. I will have to call Lyman after the holidays to to ask about this and if they have a "M" die for .313 - .314 bullets.

[wes lorenz]

When everything is working right in the 32 ACP Pardini, your cases will be bulged. The case is made for a bullet around .310 or so but the Pardini barrels are around .314. This is why I use a .002 larger sizing die. I want the cases to stay bulged. Slow powder however has nothing to do with bulging the brass. Since Pardini made these pistols with a large chamber, after several shots they will appear bulged even more than my large expander makes them especially toward the rear of the case farther than my expander goes.

All,
I guess I should have been more descriptive. I didn't mean the bulge at the case mouth from seating a bullet.
When using slower powders (TiteGroup, 700X, Clays) I get dirty brass with longitudinal lines from a bad seal and the cases are bulged near the base (makes me worry about case head separation).
When using 310 and TiteWad the cases show no evidence of the above conditions.
Have others noticed this also when using slower powders?
I seem to get much better groups with faster powders and just need to figure out where the 2-3 flyers come from.
Wes

[beeser]

.... I seem to get much better groups with faster powders and just need to figure out where the 2-3 flyers come from.
Wes

Good question Wes. Wish I had an answer. Are you getting any flyers with the Hornady XTPs if those were tried?

[Trooperjake]

Wes
What bullet are you using?
Jacketed bullets will give you higher pressures than lead.
I do not get extreme bulging with my brass, and do not get longitudinal lines.
I did have to change my taper crimp die to a Redding, the RCBS die caused a bulge in the case behind the bullet. No matter how I set the die.
I get dirty brass with the AA #2 powder, much less with VV310.
When I first started loading the 32 with the XTP 60 gr. and VV310 I had 2 head separations using range brass. That was early last year, and now I haven't had any more.

[wes lorenz]

Hi Trooper Jake,
I'm using the 60gr XTP and both AA molds (31-060 & 31-065) and am actually getting better groups with the 065, plus the seating stem has the same setting as the 60gr XTP.
Still getting 10 ring groups at 50yds with the XTP no matter what powder I use as long as I use 1.6gr of vv-310 or more.
The lead bullets have about 2-3 flyers and I think I may change to base first sizing & lubing instead of nose first to see if it helps.
Thanks,
Wes

[beeser]

I plan to resize the .314 T&B LSWC bullets down to whatever diameter will allow the round to fully chamber in the Pardini SPBE. As it is the round sticks out past the barrel hood .030" further than the Hornady factory round. I've brought this up at Bullseye-L Forum but no one has responded to my comments yet. I still don't understand why the LSWC bullet has to be so much larger (.002" - .003") than the Hornady XTP bullet.

[Murph]

The Hornady bullet is actuallyy too small. No,lead bullets smaller then 0.314" have had any succes, to my knowledge. Some of us are even running ours closer to or at 0.315".