Matnras are pretty much useless.
See previous posts re Terry Orlick's (autosuggestion) techniques.
You are replacing the distracted mind with a focused one, not an empty one.
Steve
Silencing the mind
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
I like the way Spencer put it. Think of positve things.
What I have found best that works for me is when I raise my arm to take a shot I am focused and work to keep my focus on the front sight only. This can be hard and a challange. From the time after the shot to the next shot the key for ME is to keep all the stuff in my head positive or netural. At times I busy myself with moving pellets around my pellet tray. This was really handy one time when I was shooting several points above my comfort level and I was trying to not over think the situation or get too excited about the score I was about to shoot. I also spent the time between shots thinking of all the really good things that were going on in my life. This really helped me to when the time to shoot the shot I was able to bring my mind to focus on the front sight 100% unti I shot the next 10.
For me also being a littl tired helps becase it does keep my mind quiet.
Another time I spent most of the match talking to myself and was very focused on what I was doing. I knew I was shooting lots of 10 and was about to shoot about 20 points above my PR. It was free pistol and I was shooting lots of 10's and having a great time. I was really exausted mentally at the end and shot a PR.
You have to find what works for you at the time. I have used 3 or 4 different methods to shoot my best. Not every one works all the time.
What I have found best that works for me is when I raise my arm to take a shot I am focused and work to keep my focus on the front sight only. This can be hard and a challange. From the time after the shot to the next shot the key for ME is to keep all the stuff in my head positive or netural. At times I busy myself with moving pellets around my pellet tray. This was really handy one time when I was shooting several points above my comfort level and I was trying to not over think the situation or get too excited about the score I was about to shoot. I also spent the time between shots thinking of all the really good things that were going on in my life. This really helped me to when the time to shoot the shot I was able to bring my mind to focus on the front sight 100% unti I shot the next 10.
For me also being a littl tired helps becase it does keep my mind quiet.
Another time I spent most of the match talking to myself and was very focused on what I was doing. I knew I was shooting lots of 10 and was about to shoot about 20 points above my PR. It was free pistol and I was shooting lots of 10's and having a great time. I was really exausted mentally at the end and shot a PR.
You have to find what works for you at the time. I have used 3 or 4 different methods to shoot my best. Not every one works all the time.
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Guest
Sorry steve, hope your elbow is on the improve.
Dont mean to confuse, but this focused state, is the empty mind with purpose/focus. different to determined somewhat.
spencer, I think it depends on where you are in your development as to what mental approach is required.
this figure of 570 ap was said to be the bench mark before starting to work on your mental side. the standard western teaching is very suitable up to, and around that level
but the work required to advance past a level, eg 570, using this flawed system is horrendous, but possible.
I think that was meant by the statement, at that point training should be going down the path ed is venturing.
many people get to a level, but stall there, often going backwards the harder they try.
its not lack of trying, its using the wrong appoach.
To add to the 570 ap level statement, I was at a level in RT to apply this "empty mind", but dont have the technique yet in ap to start applying this. so at 550-560 ap, I am really not ready to let go, I am still learning to shoot.
bryan
Dont mean to confuse, but this focused state, is the empty mind with purpose/focus. different to determined somewhat.
spencer, I think it depends on where you are in your development as to what mental approach is required.
this figure of 570 ap was said to be the bench mark before starting to work on your mental side. the standard western teaching is very suitable up to, and around that level
but the work required to advance past a level, eg 570, using this flawed system is horrendous, but possible.
I think that was meant by the statement, at that point training should be going down the path ed is venturing.
many people get to a level, but stall there, often going backwards the harder they try.
its not lack of trying, its using the wrong appoach.
To add to the 570 ap level statement, I was at a level in RT to apply this "empty mind", but dont have the technique yet in ap to start applying this. so at 550-560 ap, I am really not ready to let go, I am still learning to shoot.
bryan
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2650 Plus
Ref Eds comment earlier
Lyrics go "allign sights ,Front in rear, align sights , Iniatiate trigger" Only one change is necessary to consistantly shoot tens. Iniatiate trigger pull first. Becaust the mental process is jumping back and forth, leaving sight allignment at its most critical point and this is where the flinch and jerk come into play. Good Shooting Bill Horton
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crosshairs
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:22 pm
Re: Ref Eds comment earlier
You are quite right, Bill! If you are using a song to direct your conscious, sights, then trigger is backwards. Of course, I also don't believe in mantras/chants any longer, myself.2650 Plus wrote:Lyrics go "allign sights ,Front in rear, align sights , Iniatiate trigger" Only one change is necessary to consistantly shoot tens. Iniatiate trigger pull first. Becaust the mental process is jumping back and forth, leaving sight allignment at its most critical point and this is where the flinch and jerk come into play. Good Shooting Bill Horton
My current belief is to tell your subconscious what you want and then turn it loose and become an observer. In effect, you are really halting judgment, and letting your subconscious use the visual and tactile information to direct the shot. You should also refrain from good/bad judgment of the resultant shots. Let them just be valid data for your subconscious to evaluate for future calculations of your "internal balistics calculator."**
So as to the quiet mind I refer to, it simply means, not thinking of anything, but still being wrapped up in the "show." Try becoming a fascinated observer. Think of yourself (conscious) as a coach telling your protege (subconscious) to perform the shot and then observing their performance.
**I first heard this term from Steve Swartz while discussing environment effects.
Take Care,
Ed Hall
U.S. Air Force Competitive Shooting Teams
Things of Interest to Bullseye (and International) Competitors
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Guest
ed, thats very good.
once mind is clear, input instuctions, then do it.
once mind is cleared properly, (this is not always easy,) the shot placement is used as pure feedback in position, not result.
so no 10, 10 ,10 ,10 ,10 ,10 ,oh shit! issues any more.
using results as a performance reference while shooting, means your "internal balistics calculator."** adds it up very well, causing comfort zone issues on a peek performance, and round and round we go.
mantras are good for the times you have trouble clearing your mind
bryan
once mind is clear, input instuctions, then do it.
once mind is cleared properly, (this is not always easy,) the shot placement is used as pure feedback in position, not result.
so no 10, 10 ,10 ,10 ,10 ,10 ,oh shit! issues any more.
using results as a performance reference while shooting, means your "internal balistics calculator."** adds it up very well, causing comfort zone issues on a peek performance, and round and round we go.
mantras are good for the times you have trouble clearing your mind
bryan
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Steve Swartz
Bryan:
Good correction on what I said earlier. "Mantras" by themnselves are useless; you need to have something positive to put in your mind after you clear it.
That's why I recommended Terry Orlick's approach which is a blend of Bassham and self-hypnosis.
But i still maintain you need to know *what* you are trying to achieve first. Hypnotizing yourself to jerk the trigger would work just fine, if what you wanted to do was jerk the trigger.
Hypnotizing yourself to hold the gun still would be amusing (like hypnotizing yourself to be a chicken- you could never actually be a chicken after all).
Hypnotizing yourself to accept the wobble you do have and ocncentrate on alignment and trigger control would actually be a useful thing.
Steve Swartz
Good correction on what I said earlier. "Mantras" by themnselves are useless; you need to have something positive to put in your mind after you clear it.
That's why I recommended Terry Orlick's approach which is a blend of Bassham and self-hypnosis.
But i still maintain you need to know *what* you are trying to achieve first. Hypnotizing yourself to jerk the trigger would work just fine, if what you wanted to do was jerk the trigger.
Hypnotizing yourself to hold the gun still would be amusing (like hypnotizing yourself to be a chicken- you could never actually be a chicken after all).
Hypnotizing yourself to accept the wobble you do have and ocncentrate on alignment and trigger control would actually be a useful thing.
Steve Swartz
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Guest
mantras are verbal, which are a distraction to none verbal thought.
So using mantras as a distraction when your subconsious is not happy helps.
But when your mind is clear, as ed put it, the last thing to introduce is verbal though. this is where the real importance of visualisation really is, not just the increased comfort level pushed by the std methods.
my opinion of visualisation is telling the clear mind what to do.
bryan
So using mantras as a distraction when your subconsious is not happy helps.
But when your mind is clear, as ed put it, the last thing to introduce is verbal though. this is where the real importance of visualisation really is, not just the increased comfort level pushed by the std methods.
my opinion of visualisation is telling the clear mind what to do.
bryan
Since the late Mr. Herrigel and his ".. way of archery" are already mentioned, some remarks from that perspective probably won't do harm:
First:
It ist an accepted technique in Zen to ask when an issue comes up: Who is asking the question?
In our case the mind of the shooter wishes his mind to be silent.
Second:
The recommended approach here is to overcome the split (or duality if you prefer) between subject/object, event/observer, shooter/goal, etc. (or to recognize the "oneness" - not-two - in Zen terms).
Exactly for the situation of split/duality this recommendation still holds "Kill Buddha if you meet him on your way"
A possibly known US-proponent ist Jon Kabat Zinn (former coach for US olympic teams, sometimes called "Zen-sword" and btw professor of medicine emeritus)
A nice read from him is "Full Catastope Living" - or if you have 72 minutes spare time - his video on youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwwKbM_vJc
First:
It ist an accepted technique in Zen to ask when an issue comes up: Who is asking the question?
In our case the mind of the shooter wishes his mind to be silent.
What are then the chances to turn what is apparently "part of the problem" into "part of the solution"?...but my mind has a tendency to "wander off" with alarming frequency during shooting sessions. This is becoming pretty annoying and, of course, upsets scores..
Second:
The recommended approach here is to overcome the split (or duality if you prefer) between subject/object, event/observer, shooter/goal, etc. (or to recognize the "oneness" - not-two - in Zen terms).
Exactly for the situation of split/duality this recommendation still holds "Kill Buddha if you meet him on your way"
A possibly known US-proponent ist Jon Kabat Zinn (former coach for US olympic teams, sometimes called "Zen-sword" and btw professor of medicine emeritus)
A nice read from him is "Full Catastope Living" - or if you have 72 minutes spare time - his video on youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwwKbM_vJc