4H rules slightly confusing... 2 rifles allowed?

[Swampy]

Ok so the 4H obviously goes by the NRA standard for 10m sporter...
Got that part.

Then it goes on to say

Silhouettes - Shooters will shoot 4 banks of 5 targets at distances of: chickens - 20 yards, pigs - 30 yards, turkeys - 36 yards, rams - 45 yards.

That's straight forward enough. At first I just shrugged off the fact 45 yards is rediculous for a 10m gun.

Blah blah blah, more rules you probably know.

Acceptable air rifles will be any unaltered factory sporter air rifle that is or was a catalogue item, readily available over the counter to the general public, weighing no more than 11 pounds with scope and mounts

Ok whoa hold up.... 11 pounds?! Scopes?! What?? -.- *instant confusion sets in* ok let's back up... and try to figure this out.

I'm GUESSING what they mean is things like RWS guns (I have access to a .22 m54 so I'm hoping) because no sporter 10m gun is 11 pounds or really reliably capable of knocking a ram down (I think? I've never actually shot a ram with a 500fps gun), and I'm pretty sure a pig at 30 or a ram at 45 would be no problem for a .22 at 900fps...

Have I got this right? Can I bring 2 guns to a 4H match, one for paper and one for steel?

Thanks ALOT; nobody I'm in immediate contact with seems to know...

[Swampy]

I wanna clarify that I'm still in highschool, and while I have not been in 4H or air rifle long, but I've shot more powder guns (My Browning Citori's what skeet and sporting clays shooters refer to as 'experienced' and I'm working on making my rifles that way) than most people ever will, so I can say I'm a good shot and pretty well know it, and I think I have a background that will do me good in this.

45y. IS rediculous for a 10m sporter right? I would guess... 8 grain bullet going... very slowly and dropping what I calculated to be about 11-13" depending on the ballistic coefficient from a 10m zero...

I think I could knock down a pig at 30, and definitely a chicken at 20, but... #1 I'm losing speed at 45 and #2 I'm increasing in power needed to knock over the target at 45(being a ram and not a chicken)... doesn't work out... I think.
?
Thx

[LT-1]

You may use 2 rifles. One for paper and one for steel but they both have to be .177. Nothing larger. We use XS40's and they seem to work just fine at 45 yards. If you do your part the rams aren't that hard to knock over.

[B.T.Carstensen]

Yes you can have 2 guns, but if you are shooting 3p air rifle then the Silhouettes match you will be shooting has to be shot with a air rifle. It does not have to be a 888 or something like that it can shot over 800fps if you can find one like that, I shot a Valiant XS40 with a scope on it and shot vary well.

<>Brian<>

[Swampy]

Well my gun's a pneumatic (Avanti), doin about 500... and I've honestly never even shot a sillhouette with this gun (done it with a faster rifle at shorter range though), I wish I had some to try it with.

Don't think I'll use a scope, changing it out if I just use the only .177 I have is problematic with re-sighting issues. Seeing....... somethin the size of even a pig at 45 yards hasn't really been a problem for me with pretty much anything I shoot.

Would it be wise to go ahead and get a faster gun (I have my eye on an RWS 48, I'll want one in the long run anyway and I'm not familiar with an XS40 so this might be repeating a question) for sillhouettes? I'll end up with that gun sooner or later anyway, so... if I get it now I have it and can learn it and compete with it, scope and all. Right? Or is an RWS even accurate enough? I've grouped 1" at about 38-40m. with the same .22 I said I had access to earlier... so I'm guessing it'd be good.

Thanks for the clarification you've already given me though.

[SRichieR]

One year we used 888's and XS40's. We had to use a bunch of shims under the scope mount on the 888's to get the rifle zeroed at 45yds. If your follow through is good and the light is right sometimes you could see the pellet as it meandered to the ram. A number of people had problems with the CO2 and the heat.

The XS40's did ok. The winners that year used a PCA gun with a velocity around 900 fps. They really blew us away on silhouettes. Our kids were competitive with theirs in 10 meter so I think the shooters were fairly even and the equipment made a big difference.

My goal is to try one of the side cock RWS models with a 900 fps velocity. Anybody done it?

[Swampy]

Well I see what you mean on the 888s... and that's something I think I'd wanna stay away from (having to shim scopes and low velocity not to mention scope mounting and dismounting problems), but the RWS side cock models (like the 48) are 1.1k fps in .177... is there any velocity limit that I just haven't found? This is sounding like the way to go what with competitions and keeping it in the long run.

[Swampy]

I take that back, heavy pellets should go right ahead at about 900fps from the 48.

[jhmartin]

I sent this query to the National Foundation folks back in November and never got a response.

They keep making it confusing when they do not start from scratch with the rulebook and then make modifications.

If I were to interpret the NRA Rules any rifle that is a "Target" Silhouette Air Rifle (See3.3(a)) would NOT qualify, except for those specifically mentioned. Me .... I'd say the RWS is a "Target" class rifle, not a "Sporter" class.

I could easily make my daughter's Anschutz 2002 CA go under 11 lbs with a scope, but it is not a "Sporter" gun.

Note that Rule 3.3(a) specifically mentions target rifles made by Anschutz, Beeman, Crosman, Daisy, FWB, RWS, Steyr and Walther to be "Target" silhouette rifles. (4-H made the exception to allow the named rifles so that if necessary, a single gun could be used .... NRA considers the 888's and such "Target" rifles)

To be safe, my kids will probably shoot their 888/887's in 3-P and INTL, and we'll mount scopes and barrel weights on our XSV-40's. The XSV-40s with domed pellets do knock over rams at 45 yds. Yes, if you have a good hold and followthru you can see the pellet. This can be an advantage in self-spotting the shot.

[Swamp]

Lookin' into it. Thanks for that info though jh, had not run across that. I'll end up with another air rifle anyway, so might as well get it now and compete with it now, whatever it is.[/quote]