I have been fighting the local government on a law that came to our attention that keeps us from shooting air guns/bb guns in the city limits. There is a loophole in the law that states that it can be done on a certified range. Problem lies that a portable set up is what we use and not a permanant range facility. I need any information that I can use to put together a certified range so I can write an Standard Operating Procedure to "Certifiy" an air gun range for Virginia 4-H. Please send me links or files that refer to setting up and approving/certifing an air gun range. Checklists, Manuals, etc. Supposedly only one organization actually certifies a range and that would be JROTC. I would love to get a copy of the checklist or manuals etc. Send Info to me at VA-4H-BBATCox.net replace the AT with @.
Thank you
Coach Chris Moore
4-H airgun program needs a "Certified" Range
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963
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Turbo Daggit
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:22 am
- Location: Roanoke, VA
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Hi
Basically, what you're up against is the concept that Law Enforcement can get a few more dollars in fines if they make something illegal. In this case, it's illegal to shoot a BB-gun within the city limits, expect at a certified range.
In Wichita, we had to buy a permit to operate a shooting gallery. If you have a "certification requirement", they have to have written down what those requirements to become certified are. In our case, we just had to buy the permit. According to the stories, the old Chief of Police didn't even know that the permits existed.
You'll have to go downtown and find out what your local requirements for a shooting range are, it isn't a 4H requirement. Ordering the NRA Range Officer course will give you a good baseline Standard Operating Procedure, but the certification itself will be local.
Mike
Wichita KS
Basically, what you're up against is the concept that Law Enforcement can get a few more dollars in fines if they make something illegal. In this case, it's illegal to shoot a BB-gun within the city limits, expect at a certified range.
In Wichita, we had to buy a permit to operate a shooting gallery. If you have a "certification requirement", they have to have written down what those requirements to become certified are. In our case, we just had to buy the permit. According to the stories, the old Chief of Police didn't even know that the permits existed.
You'll have to go downtown and find out what your local requirements for a shooting range are, it isn't a 4H requirement. Ordering the NRA Range Officer course will give you a good baseline Standard Operating Procedure, but the certification itself will be local.
Mike
Wichita KS
Chris,
Va law on air gun discharge was re-written in 2004. You may be bumping up against an old law.
Here's a link to the new state law. It says that the NRA can certify air rifle ranges.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 15.2-915.4
Va law on air gun discharge was re-written in 2004. You may be bumping up against an old law.
Here's a link to the new state law. It says that the NRA can certify air rifle ranges.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 15.2-915.4
I'd call HQ Moody at the NRA and see what you need to get your air rifle range "Certified" by the NRA.Ranges and instructors may be certified by the National Rifle Association, a state or federal agency that has developed a certification program, any service of the Department of Defense, or any person authorized by these authorities to certify ranges and instructors.
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Turbo Daggit
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:22 am
- Location: Roanoke, VA
You are correct that NRA can certifiy the range. Contacted NRA's Range department and guess what? They don't certify ranges! And if the range is portable it needs to be set up and taken down and the city attourney states it needs to be certified each time! I need to be able to certify one myself. I have brought this to the city council's attention and I got a reply from the city manager telling me airgun shooting is allowed in the county, go there.
Chris,
I wouldn't give up on the NRA.
Try the education and training department or the youth development, or competitions sections.
The law doesn't say who at the NRA has to certify the range.
All you really need is someone at the NRA to say that you as an NRA coach can certify that an air rifle range is safe. The NRA has a booklet on developing a neighborhood airgun program, it includes range design plans. I would think that all you need is a letter from someone at the NRA to say that as long as designs are consistent with their booklet #EF 09181 that an NRA Appointed coach can certify the range as safe.
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.a ... EF%2009181
HQ Moody is in charge of the coach development, give him a call and see what he can do.
Failing that it's time to change the Roanoke city council. All you really need to do is insert the word "Outdoor" in the ordinance so that indoor ranges are allowed. And if that doesn't work then maybe we can get the law changed at the state level so that cities and counties can only create ordinanaces against outdoor pneumatic gun shooting. (but that would probably not happen in this legislative session.)
If Fairfax County Public Schools will allow rifle teams as part of their athletic program there's hope for Roanoke.
I wouldn't give up on the NRA.
Try the education and training department or the youth development, or competitions sections.
The law doesn't say who at the NRA has to certify the range.
All you really need is someone at the NRA to say that you as an NRA coach can certify that an air rifle range is safe. The NRA has a booklet on developing a neighborhood airgun program, it includes range design plans. I would think that all you need is a letter from someone at the NRA to say that as long as designs are consistent with their booklet #EF 09181 that an NRA Appointed coach can certify the range as safe.
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.a ... EF%2009181
HQ Moody is in charge of the coach development, give him a call and see what he can do.
Failing that it's time to change the Roanoke city council. All you really need to do is insert the word "Outdoor" in the ordinance so that indoor ranges are allowed. And if that doesn't work then maybe we can get the law changed at the state level so that cities and counties can only create ordinanaces against outdoor pneumatic gun shooting. (but that would probably not happen in this legislative session.)
If Fairfax County Public Schools will allow rifle teams as part of their athletic program there's hope for Roanoke.
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Guest
Someone from CMP/JROTC has called me but I can't find where I put his name and number that was about a week or two weeks ago. He stated he would get back with me but expected problems due to the fact we were not JROTC.
We are not as of yet affiliated with CMP and if it is FREE for 4-H Well tell me where to sign up.
Tell me where to take this JROTC JMIC course I am hoping there is one close by to roanoke va as well as cheap for my and the clubs sake! I would like to get this as soon as possible to prevent any delays in our education program. If I could get the check list and training manual for this course it would help me a lot!!
We are on private property but the city law and attourney state that it doesn't matter either way. The way it is written you can't even shoot a BB gun in your own basement!!
I am the State 4-H Pistol Instructor as well as various NRA instructor Certifications to include Chief Range Safety Officer and NRA/USAS Coach but according to the City Atourney that isn't enough to certifiy my range. He wants a Standard Operating Procedure type of Certification that is on paper. A written form from the "National Rifle Association, a state or federal agency that has developed a certification program, any service of the Department of Defense, or any person authorized by these authorities to certify ranges and instructors." (excerpt from ordinance 21-81)
I really appreciate all the help I am getting from the board. We all really need to watch our area laws. I was shooting for 1.5 years illegally and the city council doesn't want to chage the law. I encourge everyone to check their laws and fight them if they prevent the training, education, and life skills of our youth through shooting sports!
We are not as of yet affiliated with CMP and if it is FREE for 4-H Well tell me where to sign up.
Tell me where to take this JROTC JMIC course I am hoping there is one close by to roanoke va as well as cheap for my and the clubs sake! I would like to get this as soon as possible to prevent any delays in our education program. If I could get the check list and training manual for this course it would help me a lot!!
We are on private property but the city law and attourney state that it doesn't matter either way. The way it is written you can't even shoot a BB gun in your own basement!!
I am the State 4-H Pistol Instructor as well as various NRA instructor Certifications to include Chief Range Safety Officer and NRA/USAS Coach but according to the City Atourney that isn't enough to certifiy my range. He wants a Standard Operating Procedure type of Certification that is on paper. A written form from the "National Rifle Association, a state or federal agency that has developed a certification program, any service of the Department of Defense, or any person authorized by these authorities to certify ranges and instructors." (excerpt from ordinance 21-81)
I really appreciate all the help I am getting from the board. We all really need to watch our area laws. I was shooting for 1.5 years illegally and the city council doesn't want to chage the law. I encourge everyone to check their laws and fight them if they prevent the training, education, and life skills of our youth through shooting sports!
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Turbo Daggit
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:22 am
- Location: Roanoke, VA
To affiliate with CMP, go to:
http://www.odcmp.com/Clubs/Affiliates.htm
get the form, fill it out, and send it in.
My guess would be to contact:
Sheri Judd (sjudd@odcmp.com) or
Lue Contreras (lcontreras@odcmp.com)
Both these gals are very knowlegeable on the JROTC stuff. Sheri is the main contact, but she is awful busy too.
Also ask them when either a regular JMIC course is to be held or even a Master Instructor course.
Also have you talked with Andy Babic. He's the VA State JR Director for the CMP and is JROTC.
(434) 535-8453 (H)
(804) 586-7309 (C)
Email: sargebab@telpage.net
He's a crusty ol' SOB, but he seems like the type that will get things done.
Joel Martin
Air.Rifle<AT>VC4HSS.com
====================
I often get frustrated with the range our kids shoot on, but situations like yours make me realize how fortunate I am.
http://www.odcmp.com/Clubs/Affiliates.htm
get the form, fill it out, and send it in.
My guess would be to contact:
Sheri Judd (sjudd@odcmp.com) or
Lue Contreras (lcontreras@odcmp.com)
Both these gals are very knowlegeable on the JROTC stuff. Sheri is the main contact, but she is awful busy too.
Also ask them when either a regular JMIC course is to be held or even a Master Instructor course.
Also have you talked with Andy Babic. He's the VA State JR Director for the CMP and is JROTC.
(434) 535-8453 (H)
(804) 586-7309 (C)
Email: sargebab@telpage.net
He's a crusty ol' SOB, but he seems like the type that will get things done.
Joel Martin
Air.Rifle<AT>VC4HSS.com
====================
I often get frustrated with the range our kids shoot on, but situations like yours make me realize how fortunate I am.
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mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Hi, based on the fact that you're qualified as an NRA Range Safety Officer, you're qualified to write the Standard Operating Procedure, sign it, and turn it in to the city. Does the city attorney know your qualifications? Your extension agent should also sign it.Anonymous wrote:...
I am the State 4-H Pistol Instructor as well as various NRA instructor Certifications to include Chief Range Safety Officer and NRA/USAS Coach but according to the City Atourney that isn't enough to certifiy my range. He wants a Standard Operating Procedure type of Certification that is on paper. A written form from the "National Rifle Association, a state or federal agency that has developed a certification program, any service of the Department of Defense, or any person authorized by these authorities to certify ranges and instructors." (excerpt from ordinance 21-81)
!
Mike
Wichita KS
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Turbo Daggit
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:22 am
- Location: Roanoke, VA
I agree with you totally. City attorney does know the qualifications but sticks to the letter of the law stating it has to be NRA a state or federal agency etc. I am currently scrambling to put one together for all of Virginia 4-H an SOP with an air gun range approval sheet. I have also been made aware that 4-H has signed on to the CMP national 3P council and I would like, no love, to get my hands on the range certification manual/checklist or the ROTC JMIC manual. And close to kill to get the ROTC (a division of the armed forces aka FEDERAL) certification quickly so I can get my program running legally. This would also give me the chance to certify the Basement ranges of my athletes that live in town so they can practice with adult supervision of course.
Hi, based on the fact that you're qualified as an NRA Range Safety Officer, you're qualified to write the Standard Operating Procedure, sign it, and turn it in to the city. Does the city attorney know your qualifications? Your extension agent should also sign it.
Mike
Wichita KS
Free or not?
I have been all over the CMP page and Affiliation Application Form and I have yet to see anything that says 4-H chubs are free. Where does it say that?
From the MOU Affiliates report
Contact Dana Bacak at CMP: dbacak@odcmp.com2. The CMP has MOU (Memoranda of Understanding) agreements with the Army, Marine Corps and Navy JROTC Commands, National 4-H Shooting Sports and the Boy Scouts of America to support the marksmanship programs of these organizations. These agreements automatically make all JROTC units with marksmanship programs, 4-H Shooting Sports Clubs and BSA/Venturing organizations with marksmanship affiliates of the CMP. These affiliate relationships entitle your organization to receive CMP communications including On the Mark magazine, to participate in CMP programs and to purchase CMP equipment and training materials at club rates. Adult leaders of MOU affiliates are eligible to purchase CMP government surplus rifles and ammunition.
3. As an MOU Affiliate, JROTC units, 4-H Shooting Sports Clubs and BSA organizations do not pay annual CMP affiliation fees and are not required to submit an Annual Statistical Report (other CMP affiliates must submit these reports to renew their CMP affiliation). While an annual report is not required, the CMP does request that MOU affiliates submit a brief report on your marksmanship activity during the past year. The CMP uses this information to assess the status of youth marksmanship in the United States and to plan future program efforts.
It works, it is free for 4-H!!!
Thanks JHMartin.
I submitted an application with no fees for my by 4-H shooting club to the CMP and indicated that we were a 4-H club. I got the affiliation certificate today. Were #91155. Thanks for the tip!
I submitted an application with no fees for my by 4-H shooting club to the CMP and indicated that we were a 4-H club. I got the affiliation certificate today. Were #91155. Thanks for the tip!
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peterso
Jmic Manual
Chris
I gave you a copy of the JMIC Manual and CD last year at state shoot, We talked about it at the State Training in October. It is in a blue note book. We had to talk the JMIC Training to run the Air Rifle Range at Buckingham.
Owen
I gave you a copy of the JMIC Manual and CD last year at state shoot, We talked about it at the State Training in October. It is in a blue note book. We had to talk the JMIC Training to run the Air Rifle Range at Buckingham.
Owen