I'd welcome some advice regarding my practice/training time. Up until recently, if I was dry firing or live fire against a balank target (AP) I would NEVER run through my pre and post competition shot routine. That way, I was able to shoot around 60 shots at a blank target within a hour. However, I was getting no-where - especially when it was time to enter a competition. Reading advice on this forum I've now been practicing (re-vamped) for about three weeks, and whether it be dry fire or live fire, I've been running through my complete pre and post competition shot routine. That's cut me back to about 10 shots every 13 - 15 minutes. Counting a small break (one to two minutes) inbetween each 10 shot string (for making diary notes, drink, stretch etc), a 50-60 minute session allows me about 30 shots. I'm feeling the benefit of 'doing in practice what I do in competition' - but also note the obvious, that around seven hours of practice a week realises a total of about 200 shots. (about half of these are dry fires)
It never seems 'enough', if considering quantity, yet the quality of my practice sure feels good, and I believe is starting to show good.
Any set ideas or rules on 'corners that can be cut' when it's time to practice? I could extend each session out to 90 minutes, but remember reading somewhere that shorter sessions of one hour or less are more beneficial.
Quality V's Quantity in practice?
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Guest
well if you read what is available the general concensus is not to sacrifice quality. to improve quality is more important than quantity. to be able to make it to the top a large quantity of quality shots must be made during training.
have you ever tried to plot score/grouping size against time taken to shoot? i am sure there will be maximum time for each shot above which no benefit can be observed.
have you ever tried to plot score/grouping size against time taken to shoot? i am sure there will be maximum time for each shot above which no benefit can be observed.
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John Ariani
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Steve
I've just followed the 'way' matches are scored (6 series of 10 shots) and found this to be a good time to take a small break - as in the competitions I've been in (5 in total), an official comes around and collects the targets which we are responsible to stack in lots of 10. (for ease of scoring I gather)
As for the time I take for each shot, I feel comfortable with the time I am taking and would definitely feel I was 'rushing' if I was to cut back or abandon my pre shot plan. I take it that 'guest' feels that I am taking too long per shot. As I get better I'm hoping I'll be more time efficient. I'm putting the gun down (abort) up to four times out of ten, and that eats up the time of course.
I've just followed the 'way' matches are scored (6 series of 10 shots) and found this to be a good time to take a small break - as in the competitions I've been in (5 in total), an official comes around and collects the targets which we are responsible to stack in lots of 10. (for ease of scoring I gather)
As for the time I take for each shot, I feel comfortable with the time I am taking and would definitely feel I was 'rushing' if I was to cut back or abandon my pre shot plan. I take it that 'guest' feels that I am taking too long per shot. As I get better I'm hoping I'll be more time efficient. I'm putting the gun down (abort) up to four times out of ten, and that eats up the time of course.
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David Levene
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Re: Quality V's Quantity in practice?
That may be a little bit slow.John Ariani wrote:That's cut me back to about 10 shots every 13 - 15 minutes. Counting a small break (one to two minutes) inbetween each 10 shot string (for making diary notes, drink, stretch etc), a 50-60 minute session allows me about 30 shots.
Remember that in a match you only get 105 minutes including sighters. Although it is fairly common for people to shoot quicker in a match, I feel that you should be training at a tempo that would allow for contingencies in a match.
Last edited by David Levene on Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John Ariani
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That's a good point David. Previously I've always rushed my 'sighters', taking about 5 minutes. Next comp I was thinking about putting my 'new' pre/post shot timing into action. But, you're right. Doesn't leave me any time for surprise holdups.
I know what's wrong. I've gone from rushing each shot and not having any sort of consistent preshot routine...to having a slow, relaxed consistent routine which allows me to abort (for any reason) and having no regard for time at all. I glance at the clock and think - 'wow, where did the last 15 minutes go?' But I also look at my 'results' (blank target-live fire) and can see the improvement in sight/trigger control.
I'm now realising that to compete well, I'll also have to manage my time well. Which takes me back to my original thought. Do we all train/practice at 'match pace' or is there 'another' way as well?
I know what's wrong. I've gone from rushing each shot and not having any sort of consistent preshot routine...to having a slow, relaxed consistent routine which allows me to abort (for any reason) and having no regard for time at all. I glance at the clock and think - 'wow, where did the last 15 minutes go?' But I also look at my 'results' (blank target-live fire) and can see the improvement in sight/trigger control.
I'm now realising that to compete well, I'll also have to manage my time well. Which takes me back to my original thought. Do we all train/practice at 'match pace' or is there 'another' way as well?
For me personally I only train at match pace - when live firing. I train at a different tempo when dry firing and 'shoot' much quicker. That said I also sometimes do 10 minutes dry fire at the range prior to shooting, in which case I do it more or less to match tempo.
I should add that the bits that I shorten are not the shot processes as such, rather the between shot breathing / rest periods. When I shoot I might have 5 or 6 breaths between the end of the last shot and the lift of the next (may be more). Dry firing that will just be 1 or 2. The raise and shot cycle itself is identical.
Rob.
I should add that the bits that I shorten are not the shot processes as such, rather the between shot breathing / rest periods. When I shoot I might have 5 or 6 breaths between the end of the last shot and the lift of the next (may be more). Dry firing that will just be 1 or 2. The raise and shot cycle itself is identical.
Rob.
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Steve Swartz
I would suggest focusing on behavioral factors both in training (shot plan and match plan) and at matches.
For shot management, well, we've talked about this before (monitor and control things you are supposed to monitor and control).
For match management, what this means is monitor your shot behaviors and take a break when your behaviors slip- and keep shooting when your behaviors are smooth.
One of the best matches I shot went like this:
34 shots/3 aborts (took too many sighters frankly)
long break
4 shots/4 aborts
short break (couldn't find groove so broke to reset)
2 shots/3 aborts
short break (couldn't find groove so broke to reset)
27 shots/1 abort (got tired)
long break
6 shots/2 aborts (should have taken another break but hey, I only had six shots left!)
If I am able to find the "sweet spot" where the behaviors are correct, it seems like I can shoot good shots (many, most of them tens) pretty much forever . . . or until I get mentally tired. If I can't find the "sweet spot" then why waste attempts?
Anyhow
As to the question "Quality vs. Quantity" the answer is train at maximum intensity and highest quality as much as you can. Spending a lot of time doing the wrong things is no way to approach your valuable training time. If all you have is 5 minutes, make it the most intense, perfectly executed 5 minutes worth of shot process you possibly can.
Those five minutes is much more valuable than half an hour snapping caps with one eye on the television and listening to yoiur favorite radio programme . . .
Steve Swartz
For shot management, well, we've talked about this before (monitor and control things you are supposed to monitor and control).
For match management, what this means is monitor your shot behaviors and take a break when your behaviors slip- and keep shooting when your behaviors are smooth.
One of the best matches I shot went like this:
34 shots/3 aborts (took too many sighters frankly)
long break
4 shots/4 aborts
short break (couldn't find groove so broke to reset)
2 shots/3 aborts
short break (couldn't find groove so broke to reset)
27 shots/1 abort (got tired)
long break
6 shots/2 aborts (should have taken another break but hey, I only had six shots left!)
If I am able to find the "sweet spot" where the behaviors are correct, it seems like I can shoot good shots (many, most of them tens) pretty much forever . . . or until I get mentally tired. If I can't find the "sweet spot" then why waste attempts?
Anyhow
As to the question "Quality vs. Quantity" the answer is train at maximum intensity and highest quality as much as you can. Spending a lot of time doing the wrong things is no way to approach your valuable training time. If all you have is 5 minutes, make it the most intense, perfectly executed 5 minutes worth of shot process you possibly can.
Those five minutes is much more valuable than half an hour snapping caps with one eye on the television and listening to yoiur favorite radio programme . . .
Steve Swartz
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John Ariani
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- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:25 pm
That's a great post Steve, with lots of good advice. Now I understand your earlier question. Looking back at my diary you are spot on. Many a time the 'religiously set break after 10 shots' has in fact disrupted what was a good string of well executed shots.(I'm not able to claim mostly 10's but lots of 9's!!)
I marvel too at how the brain thinks. Now with feedback confirming that qulaity is important (even if it is 5 mins of quality as you mentioned ) I no longer feel like I'm going into a practice session 'feeling' that I'm not 'doing much' (when counting the number of shots) - but I am doing a lot in the enforcing and re-enforcing of a well executed shot process.
I've been guilty in the past of being impatient, rushing shots and virtually 'plinking', and end up totally disatisfied with what I know was a wasted effort.
I'm on the right track, with modifications and more learning along the way.
Thanks too Rob and others for what has been valuable feedback.
I marvel too at how the brain thinks. Now with feedback confirming that qulaity is important (even if it is 5 mins of quality as you mentioned ) I no longer feel like I'm going into a practice session 'feeling' that I'm not 'doing much' (when counting the number of shots) - but I am doing a lot in the enforcing and re-enforcing of a well executed shot process.
I've been guilty in the past of being impatient, rushing shots and virtually 'plinking', and end up totally disatisfied with what I know was a wasted effort.
I'm on the right track, with modifications and more learning along the way.
Thanks too Rob and others for what has been valuable feedback.
Some random thoughts from what I have done and picked up from others over the years. The key is you have to find what works for you and what does not. Never dismiss what does not work for you today. you never know when you may need a change or you have matured to a level where something may start to work for you. I always go back and try the items I have tried in the past that did not work then to see if one of them will start something I need to get me to the next level.
Do not accept a bad shot! This could dictate when you take a break and/or abort a shot.
You need to find a flow which fits your style and mental state. It could also change depending on how you are doing. As long as you do not get hung up on you need to take a break after 20 or 30 shots and take a break. Most of the time I shoot a match and do not move my feet. Other times I have taken a few breaks. You need to be able to do both and not let either mess up your performance. Remember it is one shot at a time and you are going to repeat it 60 times.
When I was shooting my best scores my AP training was only 20-30 shots 5-6 days a week. My goal for each target was to shoot 3 or 4 10's out of 5 shots. I only shot one match score below 570 that year. I figured keeping in shape riding and doing other activities would keep me in shape so I was not concerned with shooting a full match and running out of steam. One thing on my side was a shoot very fast. About 45-55min for a 60 shot match in air and a little longer for Free
For a period of time I once tried to not even consider how many shots I was going to shoot at a target and just put up one target and just shoot and try and focus on one thing per training session. I think I ended up shooting 40-50 shots. Sights, trigger, follow though. Pick something you might need to improve. For some reason this did not work for me.
I think for me the structure was good to follow and keep it to 5 shots per target. 10 never worked either for some reason.
Good luck and keep an open mind to try new things.
Do not accept a bad shot! This could dictate when you take a break and/or abort a shot.
You need to find a flow which fits your style and mental state. It could also change depending on how you are doing. As long as you do not get hung up on you need to take a break after 20 or 30 shots and take a break. Most of the time I shoot a match and do not move my feet. Other times I have taken a few breaks. You need to be able to do both and not let either mess up your performance. Remember it is one shot at a time and you are going to repeat it 60 times.
When I was shooting my best scores my AP training was only 20-30 shots 5-6 days a week. My goal for each target was to shoot 3 or 4 10's out of 5 shots. I only shot one match score below 570 that year. I figured keeping in shape riding and doing other activities would keep me in shape so I was not concerned with shooting a full match and running out of steam. One thing on my side was a shoot very fast. About 45-55min for a 60 shot match in air and a little longer for Free
For a period of time I once tried to not even consider how many shots I was going to shoot at a target and just put up one target and just shoot and try and focus on one thing per training session. I think I ended up shooting 40-50 shots. Sights, trigger, follow though. Pick something you might need to improve. For some reason this did not work for me.
I think for me the structure was good to follow and keep it to 5 shots per target. 10 never worked either for some reason.
Good luck and keep an open mind to try new things.