: Not everyone has a club to shoot at, not every club will give range time to these various "orpna" events.
True. But as you pointed out earlier, it is much easier with the air events to set up a range at alternate sites. When I ran a match this December and could not find an appropriate facility that would accomodate the numbers interested in participating, I constructed a range at a Knight's of Columbus hall with 12 firing points. We ran four relays and could have had another had it been feasible to spend 12 hours or so running the match. Since many of the competitors came from two hours to four hours away, that wouldn't allow for a significant awards ceremony.
: Look at the list of NRA postal matches availible.
: Most are for kids, there is NO air pistol at all, and again depending on the group that "runs" in in conjunction with the NRA the cut offs are 18, 15, 31 it really depends on the group.
Yes, most postal matches are targeted at kids. Kids are dependent upon adults to drive them. As an adult, one is much freer to fire in shoulder-to-shoulder competitions.
: As to the 33 feet, nice try at splitting hairs but it's a common reference. The point being, if you can't understand it is that you don't have to find a range to go to if you can find enough room.
If you can find enough room for a postal, you can find enough room for a shoulder-to-shoulder. In fact, to become a 'distinguished' shooter, you MUST fire in shoulder to shoulders (including at the National Championships).
: As to failing your gender, read again. I said they do very well at supporting females that are of voting age, with even a magazine. Show me how many postal matches for girls only? I can bet I can show you at least 3, and out of the recognized NRA postals, that's a lot.
I addressed some of these issues in a post below pertaining to girls.
: But again you have totally missed the point in your desire and rush to affirm how good the NRA is.
This is humerous to me as I have often openly criticized the NRA when I found them lacking. The difference is, I criticized from the inside. I criticized as a certified coach, member of the National Coach Development Staff and match sponsor.
No, I have not always found that the NRA was as supportive or in-step with the needs of the shooters as I would have liked. There was a time, for example, when the NRA's Junior 3P Air Rifle Sectional awards were not divided by category between sporter and precision. This was ridiculous. The variation in equipment creates an imbalance between the top scores of these two very different disciplines. I complained. I charted the inequities from my matches and the Nationals held by the National Guard and American Legion. Further, the rule book, at that time, used the same set of score percentages to yield classifications regardless of discipline. I documented how the National Champions in sporter were not shooting scores above "sharpshooter" with such a system. Guess what?! As more people wrote in (as I did) and as more shooters participated in these sectionals, the categories were separated and the classification scores were also adjusted to reflect reality.
: Point is there are NO open postals in air pistol, no kids air pistol, very few postals that allow everyone to compete, even fewer that don't require you to be a member of a fraternal orgaization (and there are at least three that are male centric and not one female centric.
Again, this sounds like a discipline specific problem (and, yes, a valid one that all of the shooting organizations are trying to address). Air pistol has fewer competitors than air rifle. This is due in part, no doubt, to the number of junior programs available in rifle and not in pistol (which, in turn, is due in some cases to the restrictions upon pistols in certain areas). USAS is putting a HUGE push on pistol development right now. In fact, if you wanted to put on a clinic for air pistol, Martin Edmondson (at USAS) has funds set aside to fly out National Team members to help you get people enthused about air pistol in your area.
: And lastly, I have offered to do the work and have a "sponsored" program for open air pistol and air rifle, but I have been told there is NO interest andpostals are really just for kids.
The structure of the NRA is that each department must financially support itself. That translates to the wheels moving very slowly in areas that do not appear to be bursting with activity.
Unless a program is cost-effective and the numbers are clealy there, the NRA will drag its feet. If they were less than enthusiastic about running a nation-wide postal for open air pistol, you might simply run your own and link up with others who are doing likewise. I well-documented and strategically addressed letter will get you a lot farther than talking to the non-decision makers.
: Here's the list of postals offered,
: Some are open to ages up to 15, some are offered up to 18, some are offered up to 21. The issue being, you can only be a certain age for some of these groups, hence it's limited to the age group of the sponsor organization.
Yes, because the sponsor organization is the one scoring targets, recording results, mailing targets/stickers, purchasing awards, etc.
You can run your own match at any time and come up with your own criteria for participation.
: So your blanket statement about junior shooters being considered junior until the 20's, is absolutely false when speaking of the postal matches.
I was not speaking in terms solely of postal matches (however, there are some sb and ar postals available to juniors under 20). In terms of the rule book, a junior is one who is 20 or under. This means that those 19 year olds can shoot in junior sectionals (in the disciplines that they are offered) and compete in the junior category of registered tournaments as well as set national records in the junior category.
Interestingly enough, I did inquire of the competitions division at one time why there wasn't a junior sectional for pistol events. The numbers, they felt, did not justify it. HOWEVER, they did inform me that in the Open Pistol Sectionals, there is a break-down for junior entries. The theory being, that like the example I gave about the growth of sporter air rifle, should the junior entries explode, a junior sectional may be considered.
makpak3200-at-earthlink.net.49419.49404
An NRA rant
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Steve Swartz
Yes, we have a discipline problem here but not the sport kin
: : Not everyone has a club to shoot at, not every club will give range time to these various "orpna" events.
: True. But as you pointed out earlier, it is much easier with the air events to set up a range at alternate sites. When I ran a match this December and could not find an appropriate facility that would accomodate the numbers interested in participating, I constructed a range at a Knight's of Columbus hall with 12 firing points. We ran four relays and could have had another had it been feasible to spend 12 hours or so running the match. Since many of the competitors came from two hours to four hours away, that wouldn't allow for a significant awards ceremony.
: : Look at the list of NRA postal matches availible.
: : Most are for kids, there is NO air pistol at all, and again depending on the group that "runs" in in conjunction with the NRA the cut offs are 18, 15, 31 it really depends on the group.
: Yes, most postal matches are targeted at kids. Kids are dependent upon adults to drive them. As an adult, one is much freer to fire in shoulder-to-shoulder competitions.
: : As to the 33 feet, nice try at splitting hairs but it's a common reference. The point being, if you can't understand it is that you don't have to find a range to go to if you can find enough room.
: If you can find enough room for a postal, you can find enough room for a shoulder-to-shoulder. In fact, to become a 'distinguished' shooter, you MUST fire in shoulder to shoulders (including at the National Championships).
: : As to failing your gender, read again. I said they do very well at supporting females that are of voting age, with even a magazine. Show me how many postal matches for girls only? I can bet I can show you at least 3, and out of the recognized NRA postals, that's a lot.
: I addressed some of these issues in a post below pertaining to girls.
: : But again you have totally missed the point in your desire and rush to affirm how good the NRA is.
: This is humerous to me as I have often openly criticized the NRA when I found them lacking. The difference is, I criticized from the inside. I criticized as a certified coach, member of the National Coach Development Staff and match sponsor.
: No, I have not always found that the NRA was as supportive or in-step with the needs of the shooters as I would have liked. There was a time, for example, when the NRA's Junior 3P Air Rifle Sectional awards were not divided by category between sporter and precision. This was ridiculous. The variation in equipment creates an imbalance between the top scores of these two very different disciplines. I complained. I charted the inequities from my matches and the Nationals held by the National Guard and American Legion. Further, the rule book, at that time, used the same set of score percentages to yield classifications regardless of discipline. I documented how the National Champions in sporter were not shooting scores above "sharpshooter" with such a system. Guess what?! As more people wrote in (as I did) and as more shooters participated in these sectionals, the categories were separated and the classification scores were also adjusted to reflect reality.
: : Point is there are NO open postals in air pistol, no kids air pistol, very few postals that allow everyone to compete, even fewer that don't require you to be a member of a fraternal orgaization (and there are at least three that are male centric and not one female centric.
: Again, this sounds like a discipline specific problem (and, yes, a valid one that all of the shooting organizations are trying to address). Air pistol has fewer competitors than air rifle. This is due in part, no doubt, to the number of junior programs available in rifle and not in pistol (which, in turn, is due in some cases to the restrictions upon pistols in certain areas). USAS is putting a HUGE push on pistol development right now. In fact, if you wanted to put on a clinic for air pistol, Martin Edmondson (at USAS) has funds set aside to fly out National Team members to help you get people enthused about air pistol in your area.
: : And lastly, I have offered to do the work and have a "sponsored" program for open air pistol and air rifle, but I have been told there is NO interest andpostals are really just for kids.
:
: The structure of the NRA is that each department must financially support itself. That translates to the wheels moving very slowly in areas that do not appear to be bursting with activity.
: Unless a program is cost-effective and the numbers are clealy there, the NRA will drag its feet. If they were less than enthusiastic about running a nation-wide postal for open air pistol, you might simply run your own and link up with others who are doing likewise. I well-documented and strategically addressed letter will get you a lot farther than talking to the non-decision makers.
: : Here's the list of postals offered,
: : Some are open to ages up to 15, some are offered up to 18, some are offered up to 21. The issue being, you can only be a certain age for some of these groups, hence it's limited to the age group of the sponsor organization.
: Yes, because the sponsor organization is the one scoring targets, recording results, mailing targets/stickers, purchasing awards, etc.
: You can run your own match at any time and come up with your own criteria for participation.
: : So your blanket statement about junior shooters being considered junior until the 20's, is absolutely false when speaking of the postal matches.
: I was not speaking in terms solely of postal matches (however, there are some sb and ar postals available to juniors under 20). In terms of the rule book, a junior is one who is 20 or under. This means that those 19 year olds can shoot in junior sectionals (in the disciplines that they are offered) and compete in the junior category of registered tournaments as well as set national records in the junior category.
: Interestingly enough, I did inquire of the competitions division at one time why there wasn't a junior sectional for pistol events. The numbers, they felt, did not justify it. HOWEVER, they did inform me that in the Open Pistol Sectionals, there is a break-down for junior entries. The theory being, that like the example I gave about the growth of sporter air rifle, should the junior entries explode, a junior sectional may be considered.
leslieswartz-at-erinet.com.49422.49419
: True. But as you pointed out earlier, it is much easier with the air events to set up a range at alternate sites. When I ran a match this December and could not find an appropriate facility that would accomodate the numbers interested in participating, I constructed a range at a Knight's of Columbus hall with 12 firing points. We ran four relays and could have had another had it been feasible to spend 12 hours or so running the match. Since many of the competitors came from two hours to four hours away, that wouldn't allow for a significant awards ceremony.
: : Look at the list of NRA postal matches availible.
: : Most are for kids, there is NO air pistol at all, and again depending on the group that "runs" in in conjunction with the NRA the cut offs are 18, 15, 31 it really depends on the group.
: Yes, most postal matches are targeted at kids. Kids are dependent upon adults to drive them. As an adult, one is much freer to fire in shoulder-to-shoulder competitions.
: : As to the 33 feet, nice try at splitting hairs but it's a common reference. The point being, if you can't understand it is that you don't have to find a range to go to if you can find enough room.
: If you can find enough room for a postal, you can find enough room for a shoulder-to-shoulder. In fact, to become a 'distinguished' shooter, you MUST fire in shoulder to shoulders (including at the National Championships).
: : As to failing your gender, read again. I said they do very well at supporting females that are of voting age, with even a magazine. Show me how many postal matches for girls only? I can bet I can show you at least 3, and out of the recognized NRA postals, that's a lot.
: I addressed some of these issues in a post below pertaining to girls.
: : But again you have totally missed the point in your desire and rush to affirm how good the NRA is.
: This is humerous to me as I have often openly criticized the NRA when I found them lacking. The difference is, I criticized from the inside. I criticized as a certified coach, member of the National Coach Development Staff and match sponsor.
: No, I have not always found that the NRA was as supportive or in-step with the needs of the shooters as I would have liked. There was a time, for example, when the NRA's Junior 3P Air Rifle Sectional awards were not divided by category between sporter and precision. This was ridiculous. The variation in equipment creates an imbalance between the top scores of these two very different disciplines. I complained. I charted the inequities from my matches and the Nationals held by the National Guard and American Legion. Further, the rule book, at that time, used the same set of score percentages to yield classifications regardless of discipline. I documented how the National Champions in sporter were not shooting scores above "sharpshooter" with such a system. Guess what?! As more people wrote in (as I did) and as more shooters participated in these sectionals, the categories were separated and the classification scores were also adjusted to reflect reality.
: : Point is there are NO open postals in air pistol, no kids air pistol, very few postals that allow everyone to compete, even fewer that don't require you to be a member of a fraternal orgaization (and there are at least three that are male centric and not one female centric.
: Again, this sounds like a discipline specific problem (and, yes, a valid one that all of the shooting organizations are trying to address). Air pistol has fewer competitors than air rifle. This is due in part, no doubt, to the number of junior programs available in rifle and not in pistol (which, in turn, is due in some cases to the restrictions upon pistols in certain areas). USAS is putting a HUGE push on pistol development right now. In fact, if you wanted to put on a clinic for air pistol, Martin Edmondson (at USAS) has funds set aside to fly out National Team members to help you get people enthused about air pistol in your area.
: : And lastly, I have offered to do the work and have a "sponsored" program for open air pistol and air rifle, but I have been told there is NO interest andpostals are really just for kids.
:
: The structure of the NRA is that each department must financially support itself. That translates to the wheels moving very slowly in areas that do not appear to be bursting with activity.
: Unless a program is cost-effective and the numbers are clealy there, the NRA will drag its feet. If they were less than enthusiastic about running a nation-wide postal for open air pistol, you might simply run your own and link up with others who are doing likewise. I well-documented and strategically addressed letter will get you a lot farther than talking to the non-decision makers.
: : Here's the list of postals offered,
: : Some are open to ages up to 15, some are offered up to 18, some are offered up to 21. The issue being, you can only be a certain age for some of these groups, hence it's limited to the age group of the sponsor organization.
: Yes, because the sponsor organization is the one scoring targets, recording results, mailing targets/stickers, purchasing awards, etc.
: You can run your own match at any time and come up with your own criteria for participation.
: : So your blanket statement about junior shooters being considered junior until the 20's, is absolutely false when speaking of the postal matches.
: I was not speaking in terms solely of postal matches (however, there are some sb and ar postals available to juniors under 20). In terms of the rule book, a junior is one who is 20 or under. This means that those 19 year olds can shoot in junior sectionals (in the disciplines that they are offered) and compete in the junior category of registered tournaments as well as set national records in the junior category.
: Interestingly enough, I did inquire of the competitions division at one time why there wasn't a junior sectional for pistol events. The numbers, they felt, did not justify it. HOWEVER, they did inform me that in the Open Pistol Sectionals, there is a break-down for junior entries. The theory being, that like the example I gave about the growth of sporter air rifle, should the junior entries explode, a junior sectional may be considered.
leslieswartz-at-erinet.com.49422.49419
-
Steve Swartz
Re: ??? (nt)
Michele:
Len made some claims about the NRA and shooting programs. Several posters have offered corrections, and better yet, have offered solutions for the perceived problems. Len seems to want to not accept or discuss what the posters have offered, and I still can't figure out exactly what the heck the NRA isn't doing that Len thinks they should be doing.
I shoot in a lot of NRA matches, shoulder to shoulder and postal, and we have always had plenty of juniors, seniors, men, women, etc. We even have separate categories for men, women, senior, junior, handicapped, military, civilian, etc. to compete in- as long as they have enough in that class to make a class. The NRA has always been responsive to our junior shooters programs, whether through scouting or 4H, and we have never had a problem with the young lady shooters in our junior programs. Nor has the NRA ever not supported female vs. men shooters at any level of competition that I have ever in my life been aware of (to the point of ridiculousness: we give out "Top Female Shooter" awards even if there is only one woman shooter!). Now if we could only get the boys to pay attention! But I digress.
Numerous posters have also noted that Len could start up any type of NRA postal he/she wants, but apparently (doesn't say for sure) that he/she has already tried to do this and been turned down by the NRA? I'm not sure exactly what new class/type of match Len wants.
Anyhow, it always comes back to being the NRAs fault that they aren't doing something specific (Len never does say exactly what, per se, but keeps hinting that whatever it is he/she wants, the NRA isn't doing it).
Maybe it's a language problem; and maybe the problem is at my end. Then again, maybe Len has a burr under his saddle about the NRA and just felt we all needed to hear about it.
Steve Swartz
: what???
leslieswartz-at-erinet.com.49435.49428
Len made some claims about the NRA and shooting programs. Several posters have offered corrections, and better yet, have offered solutions for the perceived problems. Len seems to want to not accept or discuss what the posters have offered, and I still can't figure out exactly what the heck the NRA isn't doing that Len thinks they should be doing.
I shoot in a lot of NRA matches, shoulder to shoulder and postal, and we have always had plenty of juniors, seniors, men, women, etc. We even have separate categories for men, women, senior, junior, handicapped, military, civilian, etc. to compete in- as long as they have enough in that class to make a class. The NRA has always been responsive to our junior shooters programs, whether through scouting or 4H, and we have never had a problem with the young lady shooters in our junior programs. Nor has the NRA ever not supported female vs. men shooters at any level of competition that I have ever in my life been aware of (to the point of ridiculousness: we give out "Top Female Shooter" awards even if there is only one woman shooter!). Now if we could only get the boys to pay attention! But I digress.
Numerous posters have also noted that Len could start up any type of NRA postal he/she wants, but apparently (doesn't say for sure) that he/she has already tried to do this and been turned down by the NRA? I'm not sure exactly what new class/type of match Len wants.
Anyhow, it always comes back to being the NRAs fault that they aren't doing something specific (Len never does say exactly what, per se, but keeps hinting that whatever it is he/she wants, the NRA isn't doing it).
Maybe it's a language problem; and maybe the problem is at my end. Then again, maybe Len has a burr under his saddle about the NRA and just felt we all needed to hear about it.
Steve Swartz
: what???
leslieswartz-at-erinet.com.49435.49428
-
Eyestone
NRA's response to AP postal inquiry
: The quote:
: "In the past year, I have had no more than five inquires into either an air rifle or air pistol open postal match. Until interest in the shooting community can support such a program, we will not have one to offer."
: Dian Coleman
: Postal Program Coordinator
: Postals@nrahq.org
I may be one of those few Ms. Coleman refers to. I inquired of the NRA about an adult postal for 10M AP--although it was a couple of years back now--and received just about the same reply you did: "no interst, no program". Which is why I was so very pleased, as well as surprised, to subsequently learn of and participate in the NRA sanctioned match Jon Powell ramrods. Perhaps Ms. Coleman lost sight of Jon's efforts, which is a shame since there is, obviously, a dearth of such competition and Jon's provides such a good league, open to all--men, women, juniors, seniors.
Regretably, I understand the response to Jon's winter 2003 league was underwhelming; I believe there were only 17 entrants. Credence to a certain lack of interest, per Ms. Coleman's reply, does seems evident. Jon is once more putting forth the considrable effort necessary to run a postal match and is now accepting applications for the spring 2004 league. Tell your "kids"; maybe I'll see ya there too!
Regards,
joe
eyestonejoe-at-nestscape.net.49443.49320
: "In the past year, I have had no more than five inquires into either an air rifle or air pistol open postal match. Until interest in the shooting community can support such a program, we will not have one to offer."
: Dian Coleman
: Postal Program Coordinator
: Postals@nrahq.org
I may be one of those few Ms. Coleman refers to. I inquired of the NRA about an adult postal for 10M AP--although it was a couple of years back now--and received just about the same reply you did: "no interst, no program". Which is why I was so very pleased, as well as surprised, to subsequently learn of and participate in the NRA sanctioned match Jon Powell ramrods. Perhaps Ms. Coleman lost sight of Jon's efforts, which is a shame since there is, obviously, a dearth of such competition and Jon's provides such a good league, open to all--men, women, juniors, seniors.
Regretably, I understand the response to Jon's winter 2003 league was underwhelming; I believe there were only 17 entrants. Credence to a certain lack of interest, per Ms. Coleman's reply, does seems evident. Jon is once more putting forth the considrable effort necessary to run a postal match and is now accepting applications for the spring 2004 league. Tell your "kids"; maybe I'll see ya there too!
Regards,
joe
eyestonejoe-at-nestscape.net.49443.49320
-
Mike Schroeder
Re: Comments?
I'll post back after Saturday. I'm doing the Range Officer work for a 4-H Match. First time. I'll try and list out what went wrong and right later.
Hi
I was the Range officer for 36 4-H Youth Air Rifle shooters on Saturday. We controlled the match per the CMP rules. This was bad for one reason, sighters outside the center rings. Many of the new shooters don't have spotting scopes and so they don't know if they have sighters outside the rings. (actually they're practising if they can't see the rings anyway).
The guy that took over for me when I ate lunch gave the shooters a 3 minutes sighting period, and he went down range and marked the targets after the 3 minutes, then he gave them the rest of the 40 minutes. Not per the book, but it did work.
Do most clubs provide spotting scopes? We're the only group giving introductory 3 position instruction, and we have had 53 kids in a class before. If we tried to do that, we'd need a LOT more money.
One of our students shot a 540 of 600 to win, and he beat the current state champion.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49489.49340
Hi
I was the Range officer for 36 4-H Youth Air Rifle shooters on Saturday. We controlled the match per the CMP rules. This was bad for one reason, sighters outside the center rings. Many of the new shooters don't have spotting scopes and so they don't know if they have sighters outside the rings. (actually they're practising if they can't see the rings anyway).
The guy that took over for me when I ate lunch gave the shooters a 3 minutes sighting period, and he went down range and marked the targets after the 3 minutes, then he gave them the rest of the 40 minutes. Not per the book, but it did work.
Do most clubs provide spotting scopes? We're the only group giving introductory 3 position instruction, and we have had 53 kids in a class before. If we tried to do that, we'd need a LOT more money.
One of our students shot a 540 of 600 to win, and he beat the current state champion.
Mike
Wichita KS
mschroeder5-at-cox.net.49489.49340
-
Martin
Another view
All good points... some I agree with some I don't. But it really doesn't matter because the powers at these organisations either don't read this board, or if they do they go hide under their desks and pretend everything is "A Okay".
Until they start listening to the shooters, and aree held accountable by management, nothing is going to change and the sport will continue to have quarrels.
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
: I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
: So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
: I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
: Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
: Rant over, flame away.
.49511.49297
Until they start listening to the shooters, and aree held accountable by management, nothing is going to change and the sport will continue to have quarrels.
: This may be a bit off but here it goes:
: I have a group of shooters that are moving on out of junior to adult shooting. There are about 9 females and 17 males. Some are going to college, some are going to work, some are going into the military, and I'm not sure what some of them plan to do.
: They have "come up" in the ranks of NRA shooters, grown up with the various rules and regulations, the rifle classes, lived with the differences between USAS, ISSF and the NRA, and many have invested not only money in NRA memberships, patches, and programs, but most of all they have invested their time to garner the rankings they have.
: Now I'm not sure what shooting oppertunites will present themselves to these fine yound adults, but it does seem the NRA has no real interest in fostering their further development.
: I've been calling around, and e-mailing various people in the NRA for a better part of the week trying to find or establish an NRA program that all of these shooters can participate in, only to find there really is none. At first I thought it would be simple, all these young adults could shoot air rifle, air pistol, or sporter AR via a NRA postal match...well guess what, there are no NRA postal matches for young adults. The NRA has Junior shooter, Royal Ranger, BSA, 4-H, Order of DeMolay but nothing that would allow these young adults that are moving from junior shooters to adult to compete against their peers and shooting partners across the US, whereever they may be. What's worse is I've offered to do the work, sponsor the program via money and or effort only to be told that "Postal Matches are established, and individuals or clubs enter" but the ones that are "established" are not for any of my shooters and evidently there is no "establishing" more or other postal matches. The postal matches that are "established" don't even cover the full range of diciplines and certainly are more male centric than anything else. Certainly if you are Boy Scout, a member of the Order of DeMolay, a Royal Ranger, in the JROTC, 4-H, or under 18, 21 or 15 as the case may be, or shoot one or two diciplins but certainly not air rifle or air pistol, you have a postal match availible to you but that's pretty much where it ends.
: So now I am faced with telling these fine students of marksmanship, the NRA really only cares about you if you are younger, if you are male, or if you belong to some obscure christian group...but past that...good luck finding NRA sponsored or sanctioned postal matches if you are not one of the above. You certainly WILL NOT be able to compete against each other in an NRA postal match in AR or AP as adults, becasue the NRA doesn't offer them nor does it seem interested in starting one.
: I must say I am saddened and sorry that we have wasted the time and effort with these NRA programs, I know know that unless the NRA resolves this glaring hole in their program support system for up and coming shooters, the answer is to start off as a USAS club and shooter and ignore the NRA programs entirely.
: Certainly you may disagree and if the information that was provided to my by the people at the NRA who run these programs is wrong, please show the error and point me in the right direction. I am essentially interested in allowing now "adult" shooters to compete in an NRA sanctioned postal match in AR (sporter or precision) and AP airgun, with no real regard for their location, religious affiliation, group membership (or lack there of), sex, color, or anything else except that they are NRA shooters, shooing some form of airgun and are interested in continuing on in getting their qualifications.
: Rant over, flame away.
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