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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Rover wrote:
"The reason why they use the heavy version is because it gives you tighter groups."

Oh, bullshit! In his "exhaustive test research" he never looked at my multiple test reports on TT. They are the reason so many have switched to RWS Basic Diabolo on TT.

Basically, there is NO difference in accuracy between heavy and light, head size, or brand. ONLY the lot number of various pellets, determined by actual test with YOUR gun, is of any importance.

Don't believe me? Ask the guy who makes pellets.....Pilkington.

BTW Using three pistols and two lots of JSB light pellets, they outperformed every other pellet every time, but I'd still want to test again (but I don't waste my time with that stuff anymore, I just use the RWS Basic for everything.)


Maybe I got a "bad lot" but if lightweight pistol pellets shoot 1/2" groups at 10m, I'm not wasting my time trying other lots of lightweight pellets when every single lot of R10's ever made in the standard weight variety will out-shoot them.

Some guns prefer heavier pellets, some prefer light pellets. I shoot in the high 550's to low 560's on a good day and I notice a difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:55 am
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Location: Utah
Mtl_Biker wrote:
I just picked up a sleeve of H&N Excite pellets this morning to try, with my NEW Steyr EVO-10 regular length. (I sold my Compact EVO-10 a couple of days ago.)

First impression of the Excite... They're dirty and they feel rough. Not at all like JSB Match Diabolo or H&N Finale Match Pistol.

Still sighting in the new pistol so the jury's still out regarding accuracy of these pellets, but the price sure is right for training pellets.


When I tested pellets in my MGH1 the Excite Econ were by far the worst. After the test I have purchased RWS Basic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:43 pm 
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wasatch wrote:

When I tested pellets in my MGH1 the Excite Econ were by far the worst. After the test I have purchased RWS Basic.


Wow that look worse than the 9 ring..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Mtl_Biker wrote:
Still sighting in the new pistol so the jury's still out regarding accuracy of these pellets, but the price sure is right for training pellets.


I have the same gun and RWS Diabolos come out just fine. Shot two tins through it so far. If there's any problems (and there are), they're with the shooter. I wasn't doing anything spectacularly scientific, but I spent some time on SCATT with the same gun, which confirmed that the patterns I was seeing from the pellets matched my trace patterns well. I haven't cleaned it since the first hundred or so pellets, so barrel fouling isn't an issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 am
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Chia wrote:
Mtl_Biker wrote:
Still sighting in the new pistol so the jury's still out regarding accuracy of these pellets, but the price sure is right for training pellets.


I have the same gun and RWS Diabolos come out just fine. Shot two tins through it so far. If there's any problems (and there are), they're with the shooter. I wasn't doing anything spectacularly scientific, but I spent some time on SCATT with the same gun, which confirmed that the patterns I was seeing from the pellets matched my trace patterns well. I haven't cleaned it since the first hundred or so pellets, so barrel fouling isn't an issue.


I don't have a vice here at home, but at the office tomorrow night I'll run a couple of tests using H&N Excite, H&N Finale Match Pistol, JSB Match Diabolo and Qiang Yuan Training pellets to see how they compare. All except the Excite are 4.49 head size with the Excite being 4.50mm.

Interesting finding today about Steyr grips... As you know I just sold my EVO-10 Compact and today I was at Cibles Canada Targets to pick up my new full-length EVO-10 (mechanical) and Jocelyn asked me which medium grip I preferred. He had two brand new (shipment received from Steyr just before New Year's) EVO-10's and each had a DIFFERENT medium grip!! And neither was the same as my EVO-10 Compact!! Jocelyn said that Steyr shipments had been delayed recently due to problems they were having in sourcing grips, and indeed the two he showed me were quite different. One had quite a sharp edge to it touching the bottom of my thumb and the left side was totally flat (like it was on my Compact grip) but the other one was much more rounded around the thumb, seemed to fit my hand better and had a scooped out area on the left side of the grip (the place were competitors often put stickers). So with the EVO-10 it seems there are at least three different grips being supplied (talking about the same size of course). And there was quite a difference in the comfort of each grip. This is going to make it difficult for folks to pick the best grip for themselves if they can't actually hold them before purchase.

I didn't have my Compact with me, but here's a photo of the two different medium grips Cibles had (I took the one at the top, but with the black barrel):

Image

_________________
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
AA S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Weihrauch HW50S Stainless .177, HW50S .22


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:53 am
Posts: 340
Very interesting. Mine currently looks like the bottom of the two. It fits more like a block of wood than a grip, but that's probably because I have gigantic hands. I'm having a custom grip made by Andrew at precision target grips to solve the problem.

Come to think of it, when I originally ordered my EVO I accidentally ordered the electronic from Krale. I contacted them and the person said that they were just about to contact me because their only electronic EVO's grip had cracked. Both sides went away happy, but I wonder if that was actually a shortage issue...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:02 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 am
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Just tested a bunch of pellets with the EVO-10 clamped in a vice. I tested 10 shots each, (left to right) H&N Excite, JSB Match Diabolo, H&N Finale Match Pistol (now called Finale Match Light), RWS Hobby, Qiang Yuan Training, and H&N Finale Match Heavy. All were 4.49mm head size except for the Excite and Hobby which were 4.50.

The WORST (as reported earlier in this thread) were the H&N Excite. But the scores still would have been 9's and 10's if I could do my part, certainly good enough for training especially considering the low cost ($5 Canadian for 500). Best pellets were the H&N Finale Match Pistol and the Qiang Yuan Training (so close that I couldn't tell which was better), followed closely by both the JSB Match Diabolo and H&N Finale Match Heavy. Then RWS Hobby and again the worst was the Excite. I even shot it again just to make sure I had the gun properly clamped the first time.

I will do this test again using proper target paper instead of photocopy paper (backed up with a cardboard) because the holes on the copy paper aren't very sharp. But sharp enough to give me a really good idea.

Image

_________________
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
AA S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Weihrauch HW50S Stainless .177, HW50S .22


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 pm
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Mtl_Biker

Here's all you need to know about pellets and pellet testing:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51440

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:51 am
Posts: 57
Location: czech republic
Unfortunately, GECO pellets manufactured today are different than GECO made earlier. The difference isn't in the thin only, but differ primarily in the shape of pellets. It changed accuracy and grouping at the very short barrels of LP2 compact and LP10 compact of Steyrs. GECO left are old and new packaging GECO right, see picture


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1334
Location: Massachusetts
The new tin looks like what RWS Basics are now using. The only problem is that they have a higher lid, and won't fit in the plastic clips that help keep the lids on. At least with Basics, they also seem to have added a groove that the lid snaps onto, so they aren't as likely to spill. I still prefer the old tins used with the clip. I keep some old tins around that I can transfer pellets to if I want to use a clip.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
Just put the Basic lid on a R10 bottom.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:55 am
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Location: Utah
Most Crosman pellets come in nice, larger screw top tins.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 am
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Let me now ask the opposite of my original question... What about shooting PISTOL (lighter) pellets in a RIFLE? Any pros/cons?

Both my match rifle and pistol seem to prefer 4.49 head size and I'd love to "standardize" on only two different pellets: one for training and one for competition. If I could shoot lighter pellets in the rifle with no downside, well, I'd be quite happy.

_________________
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
AA S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Weihrauch HW50S Stainless .177, HW50S .22


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:31 pm
Posts: 785
Location: New Hampshire, USA
What with all this mixing rifle pellets in pistols, now pistol pellets in rifles. This thread is about to bring forth some very dark forces.

To steal from Ghostbusters:
Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
You got it in one, William.

For the rest, I give up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
Hey, wasatch, why do you even test something like JSB 7.33gr? Test the 8gr+ stuff, the orange or the blue package, they give you holes like a single shot hole in most air pistols.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
Mtl_Biker wrote:
What about shooting PISTOL (lighter) pellets in a RIFLE? Any pros/cons?


you will have zero chance of winning anything. You needed to shoot at least 10.4 average to qualify for the final of the last Olympics. For men it was 10.425 who qualified in 8th place to take part in the final.
The winner of men's air rifle shot JSB heavy.

So basically they shoot better than a rifle in vice grips with bad pellets. Rifle shooting is very equipment dependent, unlike pistol.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:55 am
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Location: Utah
hundert wrote:
Hey, wasatch, why do you even test something like JSB 7.33gr? Test the 8gr+ stuff, the orange or the blue package, they give you holes like a single shot hole in most air pistols.


My vise setup is a little suspect so I'm not sure the heavy pellets would be any better. But its also cause that's what I had. Right or wrong i bought 'pistol' wadcutters for my test.

And why? The RWS Basic grouped as good or better than the JSB Match and they're less than half as expensive. This was the point of my test: find the cheapest pellet that grouped well enough.

If I get around to improving my vise maybe i'll test some heavier lead but for now I've got a bunch of RWS Basic (bought bulk) and some of the test tins remaining to shoot through. And lots of room for improvement in my shooting ability :-)

But for sure the H&N Excite Econ are garbage.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Canada
wasatch wrote:
My vise setup is a little suspect so I'm not sure the heavy pellets would be any better. But its also cause that's what I had. Right or wrong i bought 'pistol' wadcutters for my test.

And why? The RWS Basic grouped as good or better than the JSB Match and they're less than half as expensive. This was the point of my test: find the cheapest pellet that grouped well enough.

If I get around to improving my vise maybe i'll test some heavier lead but for now I've got a bunch of RWS Basic (bought bulk) and some of the test tins remaining to shoot through. And lots of room for improvement in my shooting ability :-)

But for sure the H&N Excite Econ are garbage.


Are you shooting those RWS Basics in a rifle or pistol (or both)? I've got a batch of RWS Basics coming tomorrow and I plan to test/compare them with others in my pistol and my rifle. By all accounts they're going to be great for training with the pistol and if they're also good enough for training in the rifle, I'll be quite happy.

_________________
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
AA S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Weihrauch HW50S Stainless .177, HW50S .22


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Location: Utah
Just pistol.


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