TargetTalk

[MSC]

Looking for a good-quality starter air rifle for my son. The full-size guns are just too heavy, too long LOP, reach to trigger, etc...
I want more quality/accuracy than the daisy and crosman basics, and keep coming back to this one. Anyone own one? Seems to be just a 3/4 size and power RWS springer, so it can't be too bad.

Thoughts?

Not looking to get into any kind of competitive shooting at this point, and can always purchase something more appropriate if that time comes. Coming off of wii Big Game Hunter, he's more apt to like metallic silhouettes anyway, I'd say! LOL!

Thanks for any advice!

[GaryN]

Few questions first

How big is your son?
One specific measurement I look for is the Length of Pull

What kind of rifle are you looking for?
- plinking
- target

Do you want a spring rifle or single stroke pnumatic (SSP) or are you set up and open to a PCP/CA compressed air rifle?

What sighting system
- open
- peep
- red-dot (I am partial to a red-dot for kids and new shooters)
- scope

What is your budget?


PS I could not find a LoP measurement for that RWS rifle.

[jhmartin]

Other questions to consider:

Are you wanting him to shoot sporter in CMP/NRA competitions in the future? If so you'll need to check the rules to make sure that the gun fits in there. (If it's an RWS it does not)

If not he'll be relegated to shooting "precision" which is essentially the olympic style rifles (and gear).

My $0.02: In terms of the Daisy & Crosman basic "sporter" rifles ... nothing wrong with the accuracy on these ... the triggers are not so great, but in shooting sporter w/o all the canvas, it is much easier to see and correct mistakes.
Then when they are advanced enough for the precision game, they flow right into it.

[MSC]

How big is your son?
My son is 6 y/o, though the size of an average 8-9 y/o, very tall and lanky.

What kind of rifle are you looking for?
Initially for plinking, but accurate enough for informal target shooting, where good form will be rewarded. As mentioned, if he took a sincere liking to it, I'd gladly trade up to a more appropriate gun for whatever discipline.

Do you want a spring rifle or single stroke pnumatic (SSP) or are you set up and open to a PCP/CA compressed air rifle?
He'll be very closely supervised, so pump vs springer vs PCP isn't an issue. I'll be right there to pump up/cock the gun for him if need-be.

What sighting system
He's asking for scoped. I know not the best for teaching the basics, but to get his foot in the door, and be happy... I'd agree that red-dot probably isn't a bad idea, either...

What is your budget?
Around $200, but don't mind stretching that a bit. Kinda rules out PCP, and I don't care to invest that much money yet. See how he likes it.

The Daisy 853 came to mind, too. Looks like the stock may be workable with all the pads removed. It's fairly light, too. The Daisy 499 also, though I'd like to stick with pellet.

My comments on the basic Daisy / Crosman referred to the guns at Walmart, Crosman 760, Daisy 880, etc... I realize the Daisy Avanti series is pretty good. I'm sure the Crosman equivalent is also.

[GaryN]

Sorry but, "the size of an average 8-9 y/o, very tall and lanky. " tells me very little about his size.

OK, what is his measured Length of Pull (LoP)?
We won't know what is too long or just about right w/o this measurement.

Examples:
- The LoP of my Daisy 853 without any spacers under the butt pad is 13-1/8 inches. But I'm wondering about my stock, as I am reading that the LoP of the 853 is 12 inches. I do not think you can get an 853 at any of the big box stores. But they do come up on the "Buy, sell, trade" section of this site.
- The LoP on the heavier Daisy 953 is 12-1/8 inches.
- The LoP on the IZH-60/61 is adjustable from 12 to about 14 inches. But this rifle is harder to mount a red-dot or scope on.

The red-dot will be MUCH easier for him to learn on. What I do is, I just use LARGER targets, so the lack of magnification is not an issue with the shooter.
Then later you can put a scope on the rifle, if you want to.

[MSC]

I think 13" LOP is manageable. I had forgotten that I had a worn, old Crosman 1400 that my father-in-law gave me a few years back for pest control. It's LOP seems to be about 13" (trigger to middle of buttplate). My son can comfortably mount it, though he struggled a bit to hold it up, sustained - it's 5 1/4 lbs. I figured on progressing him from a rested position, to prone, to seated to standing.
So, I think that any of the "sub-full-size" guns should do. I'm trying to stay conscious of the weight now, too. The Daisy 853 seems to fit the bill nicely.

[Pat McCoy]

Too long a lop will make shooting standing very difficult. Shortening the stock, with provisions to lengthen it as he grows is imperative. The biggest mistake most shooters make is not having a properly fitting firearm.

Also, you may want to consider a change in the order of instruction. Once he shows an understanding of sight picture and trigger control from a rested position, go to standing, then work down to kneeling, sitting and prone. He will have improving results in each position as he gets more stable, and should stay more interested. It's always more fun when you are doing well. when you get farther from the floor it gets much tougher, and the results suffer, making it harder to have fun and stay interested.

We made this change in our junior club, one in existence since 1951, about 15 years ago with great results.

[MSC]

Thanks Pat, some good points!

[GaryN]

About the 853.
As I mentioned, MY 853 has a 13-1/8" LoP w/o spacers, but the specs for the 853 say the LoP is 12 inches.

So maybe MY 853 has a nonstandard long stock, or mine was changed before I got it, or they changed the standard stock...who knows.
Contact whoever you plan to buy it from and have them measure the LoP w/o spacers, so you know what you are getting.

BTW I shoot junior size rifles as the shorter LoP fits me much better than the standard full size rifles.