TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
It is currently Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:35 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 5
Greetings-- Been reading through this forum for some time now. Thanks to all for the knowledge learned. I have a question on to which pick everyone's brain. My 13 year old daughter has been shooting sporter class for two years now. Her consistent average is in the 525 range. She has done local/ state competitions, postals and attended CMP Camp. She practices daily and competes with the American Legion and 4H. After CMP Camp she has expressed interest in college rifle team. In your opinion what would be the best time to make the jump from sporter to precision? Is there a target sporter score she should have first? Is it an economic one? Is it age?

Also she currently utilizes a Crosman Challenger. When she does make the jump, is one of the so called "club" rifles recommended first or will I end up buying twice? What considerations should I make with the first precision rifle?

Thanks in advance for any insight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
In my club, the 525 sporter score is when we really consider a kid ready to move on .... if they want. Even better if they can get up to 545 ... then I know their position is pretty darned stable and they have an excellent grasp of the basics.

It also depends on how old they are. In my opinion, the best time to move a kid that is interested in collegiate shooting is as early as possible ... freshman/sophomore year. AND get them on a smallbore right away.

Smallbore is a dying sport and the collegiate coaches really want experience on that gun.

Which gun(s) to get are really associated with their size & strength. I really like some of the lighter Anschutzs, both air & SB, but my own daughter (and a few of my club shooters) have transitioned to the Walthers.

Know that they will continue to grow, especially the gals. Get a suit, even off the rack, with a bit of room for regular growth ... height, weight, arms & legs, but know that with gals in about their JR/SR year you will have hips and bust as well ... the last two thru college many times. We bought a semi-custom for my daughter after her sophomore year in HS, and then her collegiate team put her in a full custom in college. Now almost a year out of college, she is ready for another ... not only in wear, but her measurements changed in college too ... mostly the hips & bust, but she works out more too, so she is more muscular than when she went into college.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 5
Thank you for the great info. I have much to consider. I welcome the possibility of smallbore however here in NY, that might present a challenge.

What are the thoughts of Champs Choice pants and jacket for the first setup?

The Crosman Challenger weighs 7.5 lbs and fits her nice-- I take it we shouldn't go for a big jump in weight just yet??


Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 42
Location: Nashville TN
For my team we permit them to transition to precision when they shoot a 500 but it must be in a shoulder to shoulder match. Practice and postal matches don't count.

Beyond that I would agree with everything jhmartin posted. Especially for the girls. I coach an all girls team. All of our gear comes from Champions Choice because they are local.

None of mine have gone on to shoot in college but they all go on to college. We train in a facility with 50' and access to smallbore rifles. After the first of the year, I am introducing those who have the desire (1) to shoot the smallbore rifle.

Mike Carter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
StuckinNY wrote:
The Crosman Challenger weighs 7.5 lbs and fits her nice-- I take it we shouldn't go for a big jump in weight just yet??


In my opinion, the Challenger is a precision rifle in all but the CMPs eyes. They have allowed so many changes to the sporter program with only the Challenger that I think is would be a great transition rifle.
It's hardly fair to compare the Challenger to the rigid sporters of 6-7 years ago.

Champions Choice gear is a great option to those starting in precision.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 32
Ditto everything they said.

My kid just made the transition around August.
He averages 540+ in the sporter division.
He's still very new at the precision thing, however, something's not the same as he still hasn't broken the code on precision shooting.
In fact, his precision high score is not even 10 points higher than his sporter high score 566.
So, don't expect leaps and bounds right away.
Even though basics are basics, I think what's holding him back is not having a precision coach, so make sure you have someone onhand with that kind of experience.

I'd say invest as much as you can in one of the 10m space rifles like something from the Walther LG400 Alutec line, the Feinwerkbau FWB800 line, or the Anschutz 9015 line that they won't outgrow.
We bought entry level Champ Choice/Gehmann trousers/jacket as he's still a growing boy.

Good luck...

_________________
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
Augusta, Georgia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 5
Big thank you for all the info--greatly appreciated. Thinking we ride out the year with sporter up until American Legion shoot in the spring. From there we will purchase the precision gear and use the Challenger to start.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 32
I did consider just buying a Challenger 2009 trigger assembly for $50 (I think it is a direct replacement with a Benjamin Marauder trigger, too.) and modifying it for precision.
(The photo is the best I could find on the web. The notes are not mine and just show factory improvements over the old trigger assembly.)
Even in the sporter division, you can completely back out the trigger weight adjustment screw (marked "overtighten limiting flange") and still easily meet the 1.5 pound trigger pull required for sporters.
For precision, squish the "added torsion link spring" until it only has bare minimum pressure to keep the trigger link bar from rattling around.

Image

And if she qualifies for the American Legion Nationals in sporter this year, she has to sit next year out in sporter.
However, she would be allowed to participate in the precision division next year.
That's how/why we got started in precision...

_________________
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
Augusta, Georgia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 8:50 pm
Posts: 102
If you can afford it, get your kid into precision as fast as their interest level dictates. Then thank god each day they are into that and not methamphetamine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:20 pm
Posts: 86
Can you please post any more information you have about this new trigger. Do you know when it came out? Do you know the difference between the versions of the Challenger? Do you know who is selling the trigger?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 5
Ok-- think it is without a doubt time to make the jump. The info on the trigger should lighten the load on the wallet for now. After Christmas bills are paid--time to order jacket/pants/shoes.

Thanks Again


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 32
I really don't have any true knowledge about the trigger assemblies.
I've only had a few of the assemblies open to fix broken sears pins, which are a real weak link in the system.
It was then that I noticed some differences like metal parts on one where it was plastic on the other.
One had built in spacers on the cover, whereas on the other there were silicon washer/spacers.
I didn't happen to notice the extra beefiness in the photo above to fix this problem, though...

Image

The Challengers are great guns.
Today, my older son shot a 561.
Wrapped up like a burrito in a shooting suit and holding a rifle with a hair trigger that's worth 4x the Challenger, he can only squeeze out another 10 points, on average.

Like I said above, I could've probably tweaked a Crosman trigger assembly and gotten better immediate results.
Hopefully, he gets better...

_________________
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
Augusta, Georgia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 32
StuckinNY wrote:
Ok-- think it is without a doubt time to make the jump. The info on the trigger should lighten the load on the wallet for now. After Christmas bills are paid--time to order jacket/pants/shoes.

Thanks Again
Just remember to mark the trigger assembly modified for precision so you can swap them out depending upon the type of competition as it wouldn't be legal for shooting sporter.
It's a simple swap that takes less than five minutes.

In fact, I never really checked the physical dimensions of the Challenger.
They may not be legal (but they probably are) according to the CMP/ISSF rulebooks to use in the precision division, but I don't think anyone will complain, anyway.
Plus, I have seen several Challengers used in the 60-shot standing competitions at Anniston.

If you try it, let us know how it works out...

_________________
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
Augusta, Georgia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 32
And I was going to suggest that you buy a NOS Walther LG400 Competition model with Insight-Out sights (a $600 option) from 10pt9.com since they had them marked down to $2075, but apparently I just bought the last one.

However, you can wheel-n-deal with Charles Pearson, the president of Champions Choice, too. ( cap@champchoice.com )
He knocked $105 off my other kid's Walther LG400 Competition when I asked about four months ago.

If you are thinking about one of the higher end rifles that are $2,600 or more on Champions Choice, you may want to check out Krale ( https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/gun ... r-10m.html ).
Even after import fees, shipping, and credit card fees, it looks like you'd still come out $400 to $600 ahead, depending upon the rifle selected.
I've never dealt with them but I have read of others with favorable reviews.
Maybe someone else will chime in with their experience.

_________________
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
Augusta, Georgia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:18 pm
Posts: 5
All the feedback is great!

Thanks for the lead on Krale. Those prices are easier to swallow than Champs Choice and Pyramid.

Also any advice or hints on left handed shooters at competitions. We try to secure spot on the end of the line but not always possible. Any other suggestions for lefties?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:37 pm
Posts: 32
Watch the prices on Krale.
They fluctuate with the exchange rate!
If you are patient and not in a rush, you can get an even better deal.
For most air rifles, the prices just jumped up today about $20 - $30 from a few days ago when I last looked.
But they will drop again, too...

_________________
Scott Pell
gspell68@gmail.com
Augusta, Georgia


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ilionkid and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group