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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:06 am
Posts: 77
This possible change to UK gun law may be of (depressing) interest to some.

Page 3/4 give the motivation for it. Something bad could happen as a result of these legally owned firearms
possessed by a tiny fraction of the public so.... they must be banned. Nothing bad has occurred yet
but it might so lets keep the public safe and ban these. Although it would affect a small number
of users it's still PC madness using the police / public safety as a ostensible justification.
Seems UK terrorists prefer explosives, knives and cars but lets just ban what they are not using right now.
Wonder if muzzle loading firearms will be affected? Certainly the .50 cal long range shooting discipline in the
UK would die!

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... rearms.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:41 am 
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svensta wrote:
.
Nothing bad has occurred yet but it might so lets keep the public safe and ban these.


Yes, by that logic everyone should be forced to have a lobotomy, because criminals have been known to use independent thought to conceive and commit crimes. Sounds like a movie plot. Ha!

Is my recollection correct in that it's illegal in the UK for someone without the proper license to even touch (or is it fire?) a 50 cal rifle, even if it involves a legally owned firearm of this type while under the direct auspices of the appropriate licensed owner?

How unfortunate. Hopefully, it won't involve some massive confiscation (again!) where licensed owners see their valuable personal property scrapped.

Is there an organization in the UK that is trying to counter this proposal?

Jim

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:20 am 
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Location: Taunton, Somerset
6string wrote:
Is my recollection correct in that it's illegal in the UK for someone without the proper license to even touch (or is it fire?) a 50 cal rifle, even if it involves a legally owned firearm of this type while under the direct auspices of the appropriate licensed owner?

Jim


Jim,

That'sounds broadly true of any firearm, not specifically .50 cals. There are legal exemptions that allow members of clubs to use firearms without holding a Firearms Certificate (FAC), and for customers/staff on sporting estates, but you can't just give your mate a go.

The laws are different for shotguns I believe.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:18 am 
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Location: UK
Tim S wrote:
That'sounds broadly true of any firearm, not specifically .50 cals. There are legal exemptions that allow members of clubs to use firearms without holding a Firearms Certificate (FAC), and for customers/staff on sporting estates, but you can't just give your mate a go.


Until this year Tim,

The Policing and Crime Act 2017 opened up the rules on lending firearms.

You can quite legally take your mate out and let them have a shoot over your land (or land where you both have permission to shoot). In principle that includes a club, though you can run into conflicts with HO Approval Conditions on Guest Days and the like. The quirk from this is that it specifies "rifles and shotguns" - which allows people to share Section 1 Shotguns (which did not benefit from the Section 15 exemption for possessing rifles under the auspices of a club without a license in your own name), but not Long Barrelled Pistols, which must be on your certificate for you to use legally.

Fifty Cals are distinct in that even members of the FCSA cannot shoot each other's .50BMG rifles even though in law they are just bolt-action rifles (FCSA rules).

Given that there is no legislation differentiating bolt action rifles above or below a muzzle energy of 10,000ft.lb, I assume at some stage the FCSA struck a "deal" with the Home Office and Police that they would impose that rule in return for staving off any sort of further regulation.

The S.15 exemption that allows members of a club to possess and use firearms without having a Certificate seems (de facto) not to apply above 10,000ft.lbs. If you join the FCSA you get started shooting other people's .338s and similar before presumably buying a part-share in a .50BMG (entered onto many people's FACs as a "shared" firearm) or taking the leap and spending an eye-watering sum on your own.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
Why would they care? You and a few others are just "subjects."


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Location: Copperhill Tennessee 37317
I'm with Rover on this one. You Brits got your butts kicked back in 1776 & again in "the Sequel" in the War of 1812.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:47 am 
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atomicgale wrote:
I'm with Rover on this one. You Brits got your butts kicked back in 1776 & again in "the Sequel" in the War of 1812.


What a really helpful comment.

Just remind me who failed to invade Canada?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
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Location: A new global Great Britain
Annoyingly it was a British belief in the right to bear arms prior to independence that became your Second Amendment. How times change.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:50 am 
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I suspect this is a plot to win it all at Bisley. Be on the lookout for oversize blancmange.

It's a Monty Python reference for those in total bafflement.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:53 am 
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Why did you tell them. They would have been perfect victims.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:32 am 
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You know Monty Python is British don't you?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:12 am 
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Location: London England
Looking at the bigger picture, Our sport needs to take every precaution to preserve the sport of shooting


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:05 am 
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Tim S wrote:
You know Monty Python is British don't you?


I fart in your general direction!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Location: New Hampshire, USA
I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
No mention at all in the Government paper of the social consequences of the proposal, i.e. the reason why properly licensed owners wish to possess them!

Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:14 am 
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Let me bring an Italian into the picture:

"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred."
Niccolo Machiavelli


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:34 am 
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atomicgale wrote:
I'm with Rover on this one. You Brits got your butts kicked back in 1776 & again in "the Sequel" in the War of 1812.


Ah, Mr Madison's war - the one you Yanks seem to think Brits don't know about?

So, you failed to invade Canada, despite the fact that the vast bulk of the British military was tied up in Spain and Portugal fighting Napoleon. The entire might of the nascent US military couldn't overpower a splinter cell from the UK? For shame.

Naturally - being overstretched - the Brits along with their Canadian and Native allies took a defensive stance. They failed to capture Baltimore, successfully sacked Washington, and in the end the Ghent Treaty basically formalised the status quo.

American expansionism and empire-building halted, whilst Britain relaxed the naval blockades. It is accurately described as a stalemate.

In what way did we get Britain get it's butt kicked? The Battle of Plattsburgh was of course a low point, but then the Americans were sufficiently poorly organised that the British were able to burn the White House. Winning a battle doesn't mean you won the war (just ask Hitler!).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:18 pm 
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And also, the UK Government Home Office Minister has also suggested that those heinous weapons air guns should also be registered in England as they are in Scotland that 'other' country to the North. It is suggested there are 6 million "air weapons" in England and Wales, (that 'other' country to the West). How they, the Government expect to trace all these potential violent articles has not been explained..... we shall see.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Location: A new global Great Britain
jack1 wrote:
And also, the UK Government Home Office Minister has also suggested that those heinous weapons air guns should also be registered in England as they are in Scotland that 'other' country to the North. It is suggested there are 6 million "air weapons" in England and Wales, (that 'other' country to the West). How they, the Government expect to trace all these potential violent articles has not been explained..... we shall see.


However unnecessary the registering of airguns may be, once the law is passed you dont need to trace them. You just remind everyone that it means jail if they do find them unregistered. Then 5.5 million suddenly get handed in. As an outright ban like with handguns is unlikely, financial compensation would be unlikely and therefore unfair. The biggest loss of freedom in scotland is the banning of plinking in your own back yard.

I dont think it will happen unless the other party gets in but if it does most target shooters will simply pay up,


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:44 pm
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Location: Central MS
What is being done in Britain to gain firearm rights back and prevent the passage of new nonsense laws?
Brits, do you have a group that fundraises, lobbies your parliament, and uses actual statistics in favor of gun rights?
If not, why don't you organize such a group?
I think guys like Tim S who frequently contribute here are capable of eloquent public speaking and organizing.


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