TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Location: Houston, TX
jenrick wrote:
... Providing a space for folks who shoot metallic silhouette or field target a place to bench their gun and chronograph it could be an easy service.


I don't really know how active air rifle silhouette is in Austin but I know a couple of air rifle silhouette shooters from the Austin area. Being able to sight in/zero at 20 yards (the closest animal) would be really helpful, but practicing with the 50-foot paper targets (TQ-14) is something I do on a regular basis. The other silhouette distances (30, 36, and 45 yards) would be great but as you said the cost (rent) might be prohibitive.

Good luck with your endeavor.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Location: Port Byron Il.
While the formal 10 meter air gun shooting is dead with adults, we do have a very active metallic silhouette air gun program on Wednesday mornings. Normally have 15 to 20 shooters. Plans are to try outdoor silhouette air rifle shooting this summer. A high school ROTC group does use the range on Wednesday nights, not sure how many shooters they have. Cover all types of air gun sports and it should work OK.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:23 am 
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don't know anything about texas, but having 5on5 team 10m competitions would be awesome, which requires 10 lanes.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
I am in San Antonio and I would love to see a relatively near by range. I would like to see something family friendly like a bowling alley environment but with the Olympic air disciplines. Initially I would stay away from the high price accessories like the electronic scoring and upgrade as participation grows. I think there should be a minimum of eight bays for holding finals in competition. Because the sport isn't very common in the local geographical area I would set aside some funds for marketing and do a press release when you open the facility. Contact me for some help and ideas for this. I worked for a major news agency. I think rentals are very important and you might let a newcomer have their first visit free. I think you will initially want to grow awareness of the sport to make the facility cost effective. Alternatively, you might want to start an air club by partnering with a facility like the YMCA, VFW, American Legion, etc. you could have portable targets that could be setup in a gym or similar until it is cost effective to get permenant digs. When you have a permenant facility, don't forget the pro shop where new shooters can buy their first air gun and supplies. Also having a person or people to coach could be beneficial.

I have done lots of thinking on this. I am just fiscally challenged to make it a reality. I sincerely hope you succeed resplendently and if there is anything I can do to help non monitarily from San Antonio, let me know.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:39 am 
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Location: Mineola, TX
Jenrick,
There are air pistol shooters around Austin, it's just that there is no place in Texas for air gun except Team Shooting Stars in Dallas. I would like to make a suggestion for your building. The CMP air gun range at Camp Perry is a long building that has a Stat office and bleachers in the middle flanked by 10m air gun ranges on both sides. I would suggest a similar set up, except that one side of the building have roll up doors that open to a 100m range. This would allow the most versatility in that you have a 10m air gun range and on the other side can host 50m smallbore, NRA 1600 prone, smallbore silhouette, NRA Precision Pistol, 25m pistol, ect.
The bullseye pistol range in Wichita Falls is set up so the turning target system is lowered and out of the way of smallbore prone, it works well.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:47 am 
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Location: Montreal, Québec, Canada
Read through the thread and didn't see anyone suggest the range designs prepared by ShootingUSA.
Their blueprints might give a good idea for range size requirements for the desired type of club (local/regional).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:28 pm
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Location: Indiana
Our club has hosted air gun matches for many years. Paper targets are adequate. Buy quality targets (we use Kruger) at the outset and adjust your price accordingly. Cheap targets tear and thus are hard to score. Having retrievable targets is a big plus. A pulley system will suffice instead of the fancy and expensive auto/ computer systems. Some big matches require one shot per bullseye, so having retrievable targets will help. No need for changing rooms and free stuff. Having a scuba tank available with free air is a nice amenity. Having a separate room with tables and chairs to score after the matches is nice. Our range has ten firing points and we run air rifle and air pistol matches concurrently. Unless you want to run relays, I'd plan on having around 20 points, if you live in a large metropolitan area and expect good turnouts. We have found that most air gun shooters aren't terribly interested in trophies or cash awards. We give out ribbons with the date and name of the competitor, as well as, the score written on the back. Our matches are NRA affiliated, but some folks in our area run matches approved by both the NRA and US Shooting. The NRA requires a fee for each shooter, but keeps track of scores and gives out classifications.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Location: Central Texas
acorneau: A TQ-14 is a 50' match, which works out to 15.24 meters. If you do the regulation 2.2 meters in length for the firing point (to accommodate prone for 3P shooters), and a meter standoff from the back wall to allow for cleaning behind the targets, you're almost there. I think with a little bit of modification to my initial plan in terms of placement of things it would be possible to handle reduced distance silhouette competitions. There is a pretty big small bore silhouette presence in the area and that would be a good group of folks to get interested in air sports. Also that would allow at a slow time of day, shooting across the lanes at an angle for a 20 yd zero.

Finelld: We're thinking the same idea. I'm thinking slightly more upscale then you're average bowling alley, but definitely a family affair.

ghillieman: I'd love to be able to accommodate small bore shooters, but that moves me into being a shooting range which is a whole different ball game in terms of leasing etc. Even if I just leased the land and built on it, there's a lot of additional items that have to be complied with regarding OSHA and NIOSH versus running an airgun range. I've considered it, but for what I'm planning and researching it's not currently feasible. IF (really big if), things took off to the point I could expand big time, adding facilities for small bore would be the big ticket item.

SlartyBartFast: Can you provide a link, I'm not familiar with it.

Misny: Good suggestions. I actually had some recommend not using target returners for rifle shooters. It was said they take too much time as you have to change each shot. I was pondering using 12 bull targets on a returner as that would seem to solve a lot of that problem.

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions everyone, keep it coming!

-Jenrick


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Jenrick- I'm one of the coaches & managers for the Williamson County 4-H Shooting Sports program. I'd be interested in discussing this with you when you have time. I'll PM you my phone number.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Location: Central Texas
Received, PM headed back your way.

-Jenrick


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:15 am 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
Dan Ide wrote:
While the formal 10 meter air gun shooting is dead with adults



I don't know that it is so much dead, but that there is no opportunity to compete. There are no formal shooting venues. I would love to compete in real matches other than postal matches. But there just aren't any near by. I am no spring chicken and the sport isn't dead with me. There are just no local opportunities to compete.

I really hope jenrick's idea comes to fruition and takes off with resounding success. I think if more people were aware of the sport and knew a bit about it, it would be easily sustainable.

Best Regards,

David Finell


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:44 pm 
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Location: Central Texas
Once I figured out how to post the results on the survey with any identifying information removed I'll do so. One of the interesting things is that with over 50 responses for across the globe, there is a 100% interest in a competitive league. It's great to shoot targets at the range, but almost universally we want to see how stack up in a match it seems.

-Jenrick


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:00 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
jenrick wrote:
... with over 50 responses for across the globe, there is a 100% interest in a competitive league.


You asked a bunch of competitive shooters if they are interested in competitive shooting and got 100% affirmation? I'm not trying to rain on your parade but you've got some confirmation bias going on there. Go get 50 responses from non-competitive shooters and see what you get from them.

I'm following this discussion with great interest because the same idea has crossed my mind even though I'm not a USAS/ISSF-style competitor and I'm coming at things from the air rifle silhouette side. Our second air rifle silhouette match in as many months just got cancelled because of weather and the idea of an indoor venue looks better and better all the time.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Found a great deal on a lifetime supply of air:-)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Ventu ... l+ever+buy

Happy April 1st!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:36 am 
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Location: Mineola, TX
I've shot a lot of smallbore silhouette, metallic silhouette is fun, paper target silhouette is boring as hell....

Olympic events are fun to shoot because dreamers are going to dream, and you might as well dream big. Plus you get to compare your scores to Olympians.

Air pistol and air rifle are not dead. They aren't popular because more people see action shooting sports rather than precision shooting sports. Camp Perry has air gun matches that coincide with the National Championships. Air Pistol 30 shot re-entry match had 261 competitors, I placed 33rd with a borrowed TOZ-35. Air Pistol 60 shot match had 87 competitors. Pretty good turnout for a side match..

Lots of other air gun games too, see here.
https://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php? ... atch=14484

One thing to remember though, these were side matches to bullseye pistol. I would suggest also running indoor bullseye pistol matches and 25 Meter International pistol matches.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:41 am 
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Shooting draws people who are naturally competative. It doesnt matter if it starts with shooting a beer can at 10 yds, when that gets too easy it gets moved to 20. Shooters on paper start getting some in the black and quickly want to get more. And the cycle begins.

Some programs here in illinois are having unbelievable numbers shooting and some cant get anyone. Its not the range that makes the difference, its the people and the culture created.

Pm me please, ill give you the contact of a great guy who almost single handedly got a 16 lane built so he 'could have sumthing to do in retirement, now i'm there 5 nights a week and a match most weekends'

It can be done, and done well


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:16 am
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Location: Central Texas
acorneau: Ha, okay good point. It was interesting to see a 100% yes response to the question of a competitive league. You do however bring up an excellent point.


ghillieman: Any thoughts on a reduced distance metallic match? I have a buddy with a CNC laser cutter that could easily make little metal chickens, etc. I've tried metallic silhouette once with rimfire, and I found the falling of the targets to be the big draw. Do you think a reduced distance match that had falling targets would have a draw?

redschietti: PM inbound.

-Jenrick


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:05 am 
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Location: Mineola, TX
Jenrick,
I'm a little confused as to what you are trying to achieve. Is this range being built for competition or for the general public to come out and play?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:38 am 
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Location: Houston, TX
ghillieman wrote:
Jenrick,
I'm a little confused as to what you are trying to achieve. Is this range being built for competition or for the general public to come out and play?


Can't it be both?

Think of something like a bowling alley where sometimes it is completely open to the public, sometimes large portions are reserved for league nights, and maybe every once in a while completely closed to the general public for major competitions.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:16 am
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Location: Central Texas
acorneau hit the nail on the head. The main focus is giving folks who are serious about the air sports a serious place to practice, train, and compete. However that doesn't prevent causal shooters, and new folks from coming in and trying things out. Obviously the air sports are a little different from cartridge sports, as a firearms shooter can't normally practice at home in an urban area. Air shooters often can and do. The goal is to provide a facility that will draw the air shooting crowd out of their backyards (we don't have basements in this area, bedrock is about 12" down from the topsoil) and into the range. The bigger the umbrella of folks who want to come shoot with us, the more successful this will be.

-Jenrick


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