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 Post subject: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:40 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:09 am
Posts: 200
Location: Belgium
Although of no direct interest to gun owners in the US, this article may be interesting.
In short: the EU wants a stricter gun control (not to say ban) in the name of safety.
If you are ineterested or just curious read on:
EU Gun Ban
https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the ... t2OPu8%2bt

Best regards,
Guy


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4831
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Hey Guy, they deleted my comment here (the only one you got so far). Maybe the complainers were not Belgian.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:48 am
Posts: 150
Location: Hamilton Square NJ
A fairly typical bureaucrat's response. Firstly, they confuse crime with safety. Secondly, because bad people hurt others with guns, they try to keep guns out of the hands of the good people.

_________________
Norm
in beautiful, gun friendly New Jersey


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:09 am
Posts: 200
Location: Belgium
The reason I posted this info from Europe is just to show where regulations can lead to.
Maybe a short (and incomplete) history on gun laws in Belgium.
Before 1933 gun sales were not regulated. We had the civilian guards, who were actually civilians with a military training that were at the disposal of the authorities. There was even a moment that the 'king' shooter of the town was free of paying taxes for that year! (I think this is a good idea!)
In 1933 the gun laws were introduced and limits were installed on what kind of guns were available. E.g. military grade weapons were only available by a special permit. Handguns could only be bought with a permit of the local police chief.
Carrying handguns was only possible with a 'valid' reason and a permit delivered by the attorney.
It is clear that the authorities wanted to have an overview and control of what and who had firearms. Understandable with the uprising of private militia in Germany. It didn't stop the war though. After WW2, other gun laws got voted, especially to take control over the many guns that were left behind by the armies and were collected by the citizens.
Not so long ago, the laws in Belgium became stricter (once more). A lunatic had bought a Marlin 30/30 and half an hour later he shot an immigrant woman and a child and wounded 2 others. As you can imagine: hell broke loose. It resulted in a gun law that allowed shooters the 'sport shooters permit' and the 'hunter permit'. Those permits can be obtain by passing a theoretical and practical exam. The sportsman has to proof his activity in the shooting sport by a certificate from the clubs that he/she has been an active shooter during the year. The permit allows the acquisition of pistols max 5 round magazine and .22 lr. only) or rifles (single shot) .22 lr. The shooters permit is not really necessary, but than the shooter has to collect himself the proof that he has been practicing the sport. Not being a hunter nor a clay shooter, I don't know the details for their activities but it must be the same philosophy. (And by the way the possession of a firearm is also taxed, be it very little)
What struck me and made me think back on what happened in Belgium, is the sentence ' that the EU didn't know what to do exactly, but wanted to do something.
It me me think of a robbery on a postal money transport, quite some time ago. The robbers were armed with FAL 308 and AK47 (that's a surprise!). The minister of Justice felt he had to do something and... regulated the sale of .22 LR. Rifles.
It seems to me that the EU is doing the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:44 pm
Posts: 476
When did all of the new regulations start in Belgium? I remember shooting IPSC with 9x19 with 16-round magazines in the early to mid 1990s in Liege.

gn303 wrote:
The reason I posted this info from Europe is just to show where regulations can lead to.
Maybe a short (and incomplete) history on gun laws in Belgium.
Before 1933 gun sales were not regulated. We had the civilian guards, who were actually civilians with a military training that were at the disposal of the authorities. There was even a moment that the 'king' shooter of the town was free of paying taxes for that year! (I think this is a good idea!)
In 1933 the gun laws were introduced and limits were installed on what kind of guns were available. E.g. military grade weapons were only available by a special permit. Handguns could only be bought with a permit of the local police chief.
Carrying handguns was only possible with a 'valid' reason and a permit delivered by the attorney.
It is clear that the authorities wanted to have an overview and control of what and who had firearms. Understandable with the uprising of private militia in Germany. It didn't stop the war though. After WW2, other gun laws got voted, especially to take control over the many guns that were left behind by the armies and were collected by the citizens.
Not so long ago, the laws in Belgium became stricter (once more). A lunatic had bought a Marlin 30/30 and half an hour later he shot an immigrant woman and a child and wounded 2 others. As you can imagine: hell broke loose. It resulted in a gun law that allowed shooters the 'sport shooters permit' and the 'hunter permit'. Those permits can be obtain by passing a theoretical and practical exam. The sportsman has to proof his activity in the shooting sport by a certificate from the clubs that he/she has been an active shooter during the year. The permit allows the acquisition of pistols max 5 round magazine and .22 lr. only) or rifles (single shot) .22 lr. The shooters permit is not really necessary, but than the shooter has to collect himself the proof that he has been practicing the sport. Not being a hunter nor a clay shooter, I don't know the details for their activities but it must be the same philosophy. (And by the way the possession of a firearm is also taxed, be it very little)
What struck me and made me think back on what happened in Belgium, is the sentence ' that the EU didn't know what to do exactly, but wanted to do something.
It me me think of a robbery on a postal money transport, quite some time ago. The robbers were armed with FAL 308 and AK47 (that's a surprise!). The minister of Justice felt he had to do something and... regulated the sale of .22 LR. Rifles.
It seems to me that the EU is doing the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:09 am
Posts: 200
Location: Belgium
The shooting took place in 2006 and Van Temse (the shooter) was convicted life imprisonment in 2008.
The time you participated on an IPSC contest the laws hadn't changed.
Mind, it is still possible to yet eg. 9 mm, .38, .45 handguns but the police may take 6 month or more for their inquiry. There is no deadline. One you are authorized to buy the gun you can only get what you initially intended to buy. The 9 mm I sold, the buyer waited 9 months and had to make an appeal to make things go on.
Best regards.
Guy


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
The current political system is flawed. If you, as a politician don't do anything, you will soon be barked at by competition (opposition), "our citizens are being gunned down and he doesn't do a damn thing about it!"

They are pretty much forced to do it, if you don't, you lose and somebody else takes over and does the same.
This system benefits those in power. In the end, everything moves towards dictatorship, because you rights are being stripped one after another.


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 Post subject: Re: EU Gun Ban
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
Everyone should also keep in mind that the gun ban mindset and what is happening with the IOC/ISSF are not separate viewpoints and actions. The mindsets are very closely related.

(and no, I don't wear a tinfoil hat)


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