TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:52 pm 
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My take: the difference in price may be due to the quality control for the more expensive pellets.

Suppose for the sake of argument that there were two batches of pellets mass-produced, 5 million each, and each batch includes 1000 defectives (I just picked that number out of thin air, in reality it could be more or less). The cheap ones are not inspected, so that on average with every 10 tins of 500 you could get one bad pellet. The expensive pellets are inspected and have an average of zero bad pellets.

For training, the one bad pellet is no big deal. In a competition final, you would not want to risk having the one bad pellet that ruins your score, so you are willing to pay more.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:24 pm 
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In all my testing using 25 or 30 shot groups, I NEVER saw a flyer. I saw some tight groups opened by one shot that went out of the group by LESS than a quarter pellet width (a little bulge).

I'm afraid I can't get tooo excited by the possibility (maybe) of a 10.7 over a 10.9.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Greetings-

Given that we we spend more tipping our favorite waitresses at the local pub, following the Tottenham Hotspur football matches each week, than 5 or 6 tins of RWS Basics actually cost in the US, we find this whole argument very amusing. We believe that each shooter should purchase what they want, shoot what they want, and ignore the dodgy man shouting otherwise (Rover) behind the curtain. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more, say no more!

Cheers!
m1963


Last edited by m1963 on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Monty Python not withstanding, I agree that those so inclined should pay more for their pellets. It keeps more money in circulation, but don't think for a second it will improve their scores.

You've heard it here folks; don't be such cheap bastards. Buy costly pellets and boost the economy, but don't you dare stiff the gals at Hooters.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Buy cheaper pellets so you can tip the girls better! I can get behind that! Ooh Rah!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:32 am 
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metman wrote:
My take: the difference in price may be due to the quality control for the more expensive pellets. The expensive pellets are inspected and have an average of zero bad pellets.


Here's a brief behind the scenes in manufacturing RWS airgun pellets:

http://hardairmagazine.com/features/beh ... n-pellets/

According to RWS, ALL of their R10 Match and Match plus line of pellets are individually inspected by a quality specialist, (he/she is probably a perfectionist?) that extra attention to detail is why there is a premium on "match" pellets.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:33 am 
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I bet I could find a high paying spot for that person picking fly shit out of pepper....or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:56 am 
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kevinweiho wrote:
metman wrote:
My take: the difference in price may be due to the quality control for the more expensive pellets. The expensive pellets are inspected and have an average of zero bad pellets.


Here's a brief behind the scenes in manufacturing RWS airgun pellets:

http://hardairmagazine.com/features/beh ... n-pellets/

According to RWS, ALL of their R10 Match and Match plus line of pellets are individually inspected by a quality specialist, (he/she is probably a perfectionist?) that extra attention to detail is why there is a premium on "match" pellets.


Given say 15 seconds to inspect each pellet that's 2 hours per 500 tin. Complete B.S. I might say liars.
I can believe those fancy Plus ones in a box get inspected by hand but not the tins unless they use slave labour.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:56 pm 
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TenMetrePeter wrote:
Given say 15 seconds to inspect each pellet that's 2 hours per 500 tin. Complete B.S. I might say liars. I can believe those fancy Plus ones in a box get inspected by hand but not the tins unless they use slave labour.


Nope, they don't take 15 seconds to inspect each pellet. Here's a video from H&N http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROR1e23GcuY from 4:19 to 4:51, the moment the lady scoops up the pellets, visually checks them on the pellet plate, and then puts them in the tin, it took her only 31 seconds. They also use opto-electronic scanning to ensure uniform weight and measurement.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Quote "All RWS R10 Match and R10 Match Plus pellets are inspected visually by a quality specialist. Any imperfection is removed with customized tweezers and replaced with a flawless pellet"

You say she looks at a scoop full and picks out bad ones? That is not what the quote suggests. But yes I agree they DON'T do that!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:14 pm 
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TenMetrePeter wrote:
Quote "All RWS R10 Match and R10 Match Plus pellets are inspected visually by a quality specialist. Any imperfection is removed with customized tweezers and replaced with a flawless pellet" You say she looks at a scoop full and picks out bad ones? That is not what the quote suggests. But yes I agree they DON'T do that!


The video you saw of the lady discarding the bad pellet(s) with a tweezer is from H&N Sport. The pellets she scooped up onto the plate contains 500 pellets, a detail oriented person can quickly distinguish any imperfections.

On the RWS website, they only mention “hand packed and checked with the utmost meticulousness.”


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:10 am 
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I didnt mention H&N.I havent seen any videos lately. I was commenting on the claim on Hard Air website about RWS.
Many of us frugal types buy or beg one fancy R10 Plus box then refill the rack from a more sensibly priced pellet where you can see your pellets skirt upwards and do your own checks. If it's round it's going to shoot ok.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:44 am 
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Some of you guys just don't "get it."


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:22 am 
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Rover wrote:
Some of you guys just don't "get it."

Not even if I say I restock the R10 tray box with RWS Basic?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:10 pm 
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You can't buy your way to a gold medal but you can cheap your way to last place.

If money is a big issue maybe you need to find a new hobby.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:55 pm 
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gwsb wrote:
You can't buy your way to a gold medal but you can cheap your way to last place.

If money is a big issue maybe you need to find a new hobby.


It isn't. I lied. I thought it may cheer Rover up. I use JSB Match yellow.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:45 pm 
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"You can't buy your way to a gold medal but you can cheap your way to last place."

Many here can strive for that last place without being cheap.

You know who you are.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Rover wrote:
In all my testing using 25 or 30 shot groups, I NEVER saw a flyer. I saw some tight groups opened by one shot that went out of the group by LESS than a quarter pellet width (a little bulge).

I'm afraid I can't get tooo excited by the possibility (maybe) of a 10.7 over a 10.9.



Tell that to all of the USAS & ISSF air rifle shooters. Decimal points matter very much.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:10 pm 
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RED RAIDER wrote:
Rover wrote:
In all my testing using 25 or 30 shot groups, I NEVER saw a flyer. I saw some tight groups opened by one shot that went out of the group by LESS than a quarter pellet width (a little bulge).

I'm afraid I can't get tooo excited by the possibility (maybe) of a 10.7 over a 10.9.



Tell that to all of the USAS & ISSF air rifle shooters. Decimal points matter very much.


You sure got that right! I guess you've looked at the scores from other places than the World Cup finals.

But, I admit the standard for rifle is higher than the pistols I did all my testing with.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Location: Canada
Rover wrote:
In all my testing using 25 or 30 shot groups, I NEVER saw a flyer. I saw some tight groups opened by one shot that went out of the group by LESS than a quarter pellet width (a little bulge).

I'm afraid I can't get tooo excited by the possibility (maybe) of a 10.7 over a 10.9.


After 20K pellets through my LP10 I can't honestly blame a single bad shot on the pellet. There is an initial sight adjustment to make but once done any decent brand is pretty consistent. But if some air pistol shooters reassured by the idea that the pellets have somehow been inspected and this helps them shoot better, who am I to argue?

My experience with .22LR ammunition is much more interesting. I shoot mostly CCI target, which after 10K rounds have given me exactly two duds that went pffft! Both times in 25m rapid fire, both hit the target low, once in a competition hitting the 8-ring, the other an 0 while training. The difference in price is much greater than for pellets, and my middling scores are not convincing me that I will really avoid disappointment if I switch to Eley!


Last edited by metman on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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