Scoring targets

A place to discuss non-discipline specific items, such as mental training, ammo needs, and issues regarding ISSF, USAS, and NRA

If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true

Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H

Post Reply
jerber
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Location: Norfolk Virginia

Scoring targets

Post by jerber »

How do you decide when a shot is so close to the value ring if it's considered the next value?
What I mean is,if the hole touches the line but does not break it all the way,is it still consider the next higher value?
I remember back in the early 80's when shooting air pistol
I was told that the shot needs to break the line all the way
In other words,if you can still see some of the line it would not count for the higher value
Am I wrong?
Jerry
jhmartin
Posts: 2620
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Valencia County, NM USA

Re: Scoring targets

Post by jhmartin »

A scoring plug is a relatively inexpensive way to do that. All the much so if you are dealing with crappy target paper.
Mtl_Biker
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Mtl_Biker »

Just to add to the previous reply... In most cases the hole made by your pellet is actually smaller than the caliber. That's why a scoring plug can really help.

Also an "Eagle Eye" magnifier can help. It has etched circles in the base which match the pellet diameter, so you center it on top of the hole and see where the line intersects.

Eagle Eye on left and scoring plug on right:
Image

The scoring plug also has a bit of a magnifer around the base:
Image
AA S510 Xtra FAC Ultimate Sporter *CARBINE* .22
CZ200S "Green" .177
Feinwerkbau 800 Evolution Top
AA S400 MPR FT .177
Steyr EVO 10
Weihrauch HW50S .22
David Levene
Posts: 5618
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: Ruislip, UK

Re: Scoring targets

Post by David Levene »

Under ISSF rules if the shot (using its measuring diameter) touches the line then you get the higher score.

It's the bit about the "measuring diameter" that means that you need to use a gauge for shots close to the line. The hole itself will rarely be the full measuring diameter.

Then you run into the problem of whether you should be using an "inward" or an "outward" scoring gauge, and don't forget "inner 10" gauges.

See section 1.4 (and its sub-sections) from the new ISSF rules for scoring paper targets (as the attached file).
Scoring Gauges.pdf
TenMetrePeter
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am

Re: Scoring targets

Post by TenMetrePeter »

If you shoot actual (non email) postal matches some leagues forbid the use of penetrating gauges before the organising scorer receives the cards. The temptation to "lean" the gauge into the next ring can be irresistable.
jerber
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Location: Norfolk Virginia

Re: Scoring targets

Post by jerber »

Okay
I know about the scoring gauge
But what I needed to know is at what point do you score to the higher value
Is it touching the line?Or breaking the the line?
Looks to me that if it's touching then it is the next value
Thank you for your help
Jerry
User avatar
renzo
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:16 pm
Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
Contact:

Re: Scoring targets

Post by renzo »

jerber wrote:Okay
I know about the scoring gauge
But what I needed to know is at what point do you score to the higher value
Is it touching the line?Or breaking the the line?
Looks to me that if it's touching then it is the next value
Thank you for your help
Jerry
Click on the link David provided you three posts ago, and you´ll see that there are drawings and graphics explainig the estremes you ask a deginition for, between rules 1.4.5 to 1.4.11, There´s no way to be confused, in apite there`s always a litle room for "a reasonable doubt", that - in the spirit of the sport - must always be decided in favor of the shooter.

That`s why when there`s "reasonable doubt" in the mind of the scorer, he calls two other judges without extracting the already inserted gauge.

But all that is going to be history at important matches, as only electronic scoring is allowed at them.
Martin Catley
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:19 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Martin Catley »

Touching with a tester in our comps'
Rover
Posts: 6986
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Idaho panhandle

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Rover »

Keep you stinky fingers off the targets. All scoring is by scorers and juries. If you don't like score, you pay a fee for the jury. You win; money back.

Of course, in less formal matches you can just whine until they're sick of you.
redschietti
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:31 pm

Re: Scoring targets

Post by redschietti »

Ive started using target scan phone app, two out of three. Usually it scores the first two the same. It scores tough like electronic or orion does. Humans all score higher than a machine will
David Levene
Posts: 5618
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: Ruislip, UK

Re: Scoring targets

Post by David Levene »

redschietti wrote:Humans all score higher than a machine will
Not after I've polished my gauges I don't (only joking).
TenMetrePeter
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am

Re: Scoring targets

Post by TenMetrePeter »

redschietti wrote:Ive started using target scan phone app, two out of three. Usually it scores the first two the same. It scores tough like electronic or orion does. Humans all score higher than a machine will
Target Scan on Android tended to be over generous when I tried it
When I stood in as scorer for a while the simple gauge with .177 shoulder and slightly smaller diameter for the holes gave a definitive score and very little enlargement.
Spencer
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:13 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Spencer »

redschietti wrote:...Humans all score higher than a machine will
Might be related to the accuracy of the printing of the paper target. EST will give the true value of the shot, irrespective of the diameter of a printed ring.
Add in variations in the humidity (target paper 'grows' with increase in humidity) and paper targets are not all that consistent.
Spencer
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:13 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Spencer »

David Levene wrote:
redschietti wrote:Humans all score higher than a machine will
Not after I've polished my gauges I don't (only joking).
Not only a joke!
As Jury Chairman I checked the plug gauges to be used at an international competition - one set of plug gauges for 300M rifle were lovely and shiny, but well under size.
David Levene
Posts: 5618
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: Ruislip, UK

Re: Scoring targets

Post by David Levene »

Spencer wrote:
David Levene wrote:
redschietti wrote:Humans all score higher than a machine will
Not after I've polished my gauges I don't (only joking).
Not only a joke!
As Jury Chairman I checked the plug gauges to be used at an international competition - one set of plug gauges for 300M rifle were lovely and shiny, but well under size.
I've been to a competition where the organisers decided to tidy-up their trigger weights by giving them a nice fresh coat of paint.
User avatar
bruce
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:41 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Scoring targets

Post by bruce »

Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.
Rover
Posts: 6986
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Idaho panhandle

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Rover »

redschietti wrote:Ive started using target scan phone app, two out of three. Usually it scores the first two the same. It scores tough like electronic or orion does. Humans all score higher than a machine will
I've tried it and liked it. It also did very well with two shots in one hole.

I usually use an inner scoring gauge since it magnifies, but sometimes use an outside gauge when there is a shot cluster near the line, cutting the line away. Eagle Eye works very well, but there was some discussion about the size of the scoring rings in it. The inner and outer gauges are cheap.

Be careful when using an overlay, since they come in different sizes.
Last edited by Rover on Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spencer
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:13 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Spencer »

bruce wrote:Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.
What did the Jury member that you told do about this?
David Levene
Posts: 5618
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
Location: Ruislip, UK

Re: Scoring targets

Post by David Levene »

Spencer wrote:
bruce wrote:Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.
What did the Jury member that you told do about this?
There was a complaint about me changing gauges when scoring a match last year.

I amazed myself by not laughing as I explained the difference between a normal outward gauge and an inner 10 gauge.

It was even more confusing as it was Air Rifle so, not only did I have an inward gauge on the table, I was also using an Air Pistol gauge.

For those who are interested, read 1.4.4, 1.4.5 & 1.4.7 of the new paper target scoring rules (equate to 6.3.5.4, 6.3.5.5 & 6.3.5.7 in the old rules).
Spencer
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:13 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Scoring targets

Post by Spencer »

David Levene wrote:
Spencer wrote:
bruce wrote:Years ago, at a team competition, I watched the scorer switch between two different gauges as he marked a stack of cards.
What did the Jury member that you told do about this?
There was a complaint about me changing gauges when scoring a match last year.

I amazed myself by not laughing as I explained the difference between a normal outward gauge and an inner 10 gauge.

It was even more confusing as it was Air Rifle so, not only did I have an inward gauge on the table, I was also using an Air Pistol gauge.

For those who are interested, read 1.4.4, 1.4.5 & 1.4.7 of the new paper target scoring rules (equate to 6.3.5.4, 6.3.5.5 & 6.3.5.7 in the old rules).
I suspected something like this.

Plus at world Cups and Commonwealth Games in the past (i.e. on paper targets), up to three tables with different sets of gauges would be on the go at the same time.
Post Reply