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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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 Post subject: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:38 am 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:53 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Tyler, TX
Did I miss something? Were the pro 2nd A forces totally obliterated on Nov 8th? Did Clinton win? Did 2 more SC Justices die so Clinton can appoint 3 to the court? Is the whole country now blue in a landslide? Or does Wayne, my friend, live in an alternate universe?

Got a letter from Wayne..he called me his friend right at the start and stated how proud he was to have me as a friend on Nov 8.

Jump one paragraph and off he went. Never in the 41 years as a NRA member and Life member for 30 have I read a letter like this..HOLY COW. Five and half pages of total gloom and doom is in store for the 2nd A. right now!

On and on it went.

But wait..there is hope..The NRA now has a new member status. Life members can now UPGRADE their membership to Patriot Life status at the Endowment level for 75% off the usual rate of $1000 with "special benefits". That is now discounted to only $250. You get:

Metallic bronze (printed for sure) credentials
Specially designed certificate
Lapel pin
Decals for car or truck
And a "special toll free number to use when ever you call the NRA, where our dedicated reps can help you with any membership matter as well as make sure your comments and views are instantly transmitted to me (Wayne) and other top level NRA staff members"

But wait ..theres more

A newsletter
Display of your name prominently in our (the NRAs) new Patriot Hall of Honor in the NRA HQ atrium.
Included in the letter from Wayne is an artist rendering of the Patriot Hall of Honor for you and your family to see your name and your sacrifice. I guess the hall is not built yet..need $$ for that too.

But wait there is more!

Sign up family and friends to Annual membership for $25 (usually 40) or to a Life membership of $500 and save $1000 off the usual $1500 life membership. Thats 66% off.

Wayne goes on the say.."Yes, these are huge discounts. But we have never faced a greater need to expand and strengthen NRAs reach and grassroots power."

But wait there is more!

Do all this by Feb 6th 2017 and get NRAs signature series excursion bag, a $149 value.

Now I am a life member and paid the full freight way back then. Was glad to do it. And I have not just sat back an never sent another dime like some folks do. I send 10% of my income tax check to the NRA every year, every year for 30 years..to do my part as best I can.

I guess I should have saved the tax check over the years and waited for this golden opportunity and get that Patriot Hall of Honor at Endowment level membership ...oh and that bag too.

But then again, at the Endowment level, would I then get future great opportunities to become a discounted Patron Member for oh maybe $2500, discounted from $5000? A 50% savings ...and another bag?

I suggest that all NRA members call 800-672-3888, Office of the Treasurer, NRA, to get a current financial statement and a copy of latest annual report that the NRA is obligated to provide on request. As so stated in the Uniform Disclosure Statement provided with this mailing ..from my BFF Wayne.

Maybe we have to give till it hurts. I will still send a check, maybe 5% this next time and 5% to TSRPA.

Another Xman rant


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:17 pm
Posts: 231
Location: IL
The NRA is first and foremost a fund raising bureaucracy. Advocacy and lobbying is second (a cynic might even suspect they don't really want to win the battle because it would hurt fundraising). Education and competition has been a distant third for a very long time.

According to the NRA, every election is "the most important election of your lifetime", every politician "wants to destroy you 2nd amendment rights" and only the NRA can fight them.

My frustration with the NRA probably peaked when I received monthly "your membership is about to expire" letters starting 2 months after renewing for 5 years. Last month I renewed for 5 years with a 5 year bonus so my membership will expire in 2026. I wonder when I'll get my first renewal notice.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:07 am
Posts: 223
Location: Mineola, TX
Steve T you are in luck! For a limited time you can upgrade your NRA membership to PATRIOT LIFETIME MEMBER for the incredible value of $250, that's 75% off!
;)


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:09 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Charleston, S.C.
The NRA is in the process of killing off competitive shooting. Look at smallbore and highpower rifle and the lies about Camp Perry. Most of the gun clubs exist and are run by and for competitive shooting. The clubs make the rest of their membership join the NRA and this is how the NRA returns the favor!


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:53 am
Posts: 341
I find myself competing with CMP competitions more because of things like this. Also, USA shooting.

The NRA performs a vital function in our society, but it's not competitive shooting. It's lobbying. It should probably get out of the business of competitive shooting. It's not lucrative for the NRA, and it doesn't help the athletes who are training for their competitions because the NRA is motivated by very different reasons then the athletes are. I'd rather they focus on the self-defense (which they seem to have basically created) and hunting markets, personally, and stop pretending that guns they review are so accurate that they could be used in competitive shooting. To date I haven't seen a review of a gun I'd consider sufficient to make a determination of whether to purchase it for Bullseye or not (I'm including the S&W Victory review in this).

Also, loyalty is a thing of the past. The new way is profit for self at all costs. I think this is a tragedy, but it is the way of things these days. Cable companies, lobbying organizations, nonprofits, etc. seem to fall into this routine, just like a real business. I suspect that the reason for this odd shift is all of the people with business experience that are brought into the nonprofit and lobbying arenas. Lobbying and nonprofit are actually very lucrative if done right, unfortunately.

I'm not pointing out any particular group here, but money is driving a hell of a lot more than it used to.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:31 pm
Posts: 796
Location: New Hampshire, USA
The NRA has become little more than a trade group. Manufacturers, importers and distributors matter; the rest of us get played for suckers. On the occasions when I shoot in matches that are both NRA and USAS, I always make it a point to register on the USAS form and deny the registration funds to NRA.

USAS may look inept from time to time, but not corrupt. That's the NRA's department.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 308
Location: Montreal, Québec, Canada
william wrote:
USAS may look inept from time to time, but not corrupt. That's the NRA's department.


"Corruption" or simple bureaucracy is a function of any organisation. And like it or not, every organisation wants to grow as big as possible and is loath to cooperate with or leave areas of influence to other groups.

The USAS, or at least the athletes, stepped very close to the bounds of doing political advocacy during the last Olympics. Something that is forbidden of national Olympic committee members. The whole reason that USAS was first created and the ISSF disciplines moved to them from the NRA if I understand the history correctly.

Non-political groups can IMO serve the sports community better. The non-political groups can still comment on how proposed law changes would affect the sports they govern, but not lobbying directly leaves issues as non-partisan as possible and has the possibility of building relationships with groups that would see themselves very much opposed to a general lobbying group. The comments could be used by the lobbying organisation, but there should be a Chinese wall between the two.

The CMP and NRA (from my neophyte knowledge) seem to obviously overlap. There's also overlap with the NSSF. History, politics, and personality play a huge and tangled role. Not to mention $$$MONEY$$$. So untangling the organisations and clarifying mission statements could be long and ugly.

I've had many discussions locally about how the shooting sports could benefit greatly if the competition between organisations, associations, and ranges became more cooperative.

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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:34 pm
Posts: 93
What the NRA needs is voting members who will support board members who will get them back on track. Toss out the Ted Nugent and get some better people on there. I'm not thrilled with a lot of their rhetoric and political action, but is there a another organization supporting second amendment rights?

Without strong political advocacy we could end up like Scotland, where you will soon need a license and permission from your local police to own any airgun- and where "target shooting" is not a legitimate reason.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4847
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Great fun! Our club is dumping USAShooting and just going with NRA events. We get NOTHING from USAS.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:56 pm
Posts: 404
Location: USA
I thought it was well established that USAS -- with their exorbitant entry fees to the Nationals -- cared little about anyone but their top athletes. Hardly a haven to run to from the NRA moochers.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Posts: 445
Location: Aotearoa/NZ
dīvide et īmpera

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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:59 am
Posts: 511
I don't mind the NRA begging for money, but I do grudge them throwing competitive shooting under the bus...and making a good deal of what they DO support home-brewed events purely for PR purposes.

As for USAS, they need to start thinking more about growing the base. With CMP edging closer and closer to ISSF rules, there's an opportunity.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:53 am
Posts: 341
Mike M. wrote:
I don't mind the NRA begging for money, but I do grudge them throwing competitive shooting under the bus...and making a good deal of what they DO support home-brewed events purely for PR purposes.

As for USAS, they need to start thinking more about growing the base. With CMP edging closer and closer to ISSF rules, there's an opportunity.


I like their Aces Postal tournement. Nice and easy way to dip your toe into competition, especially for a younger shooter who may have considerable nerves. The poker chip trophies make a good year-long commitment, too.

I think that'd be a good avenue if they expanded that program and advertised it better. It's affordable.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 308
Location: Montreal, Québec, Canada
shaky hands wrote:
I thought it was well established that USAS -- with their exorbitant entry fees to the Nationals -- cared little about anyone but their top athletes. Hardly a haven to run to from the NRA moochers.


Again, each speciality, division, and focus requires lots of time, devotion, and effort. Organisations need to be focused and they need to cooperate.

USAS is the Olympic Committee member, and the contact with the IOC. But I doubt they run all the local competitions. That's not their focus or purpose.

Just searching quickly, and from my previous editing of the wikipage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sports_in_Canada, I know that skeet and trap are USAS/ISSF events. But local development is through the NSSA-NSCA (National Skeet Shooting Association and the National Sporting Clays Association). Not USAS (or FTC-SFC for Canada).

Different concentrations, different specialities, different responsibilities.

_________________
Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:44 pm
Posts: 476
SlartyBartFast wrote:
shaky hands wrote:
I thought it was well established that USAS -- with their exorbitant entry fees to the Nationals -- cared little about anyone but their top athletes. Hardly a haven to run to from the NRA moochers.


Again, each speciality, division, and focus requires lots of time, devotion, and effort. Organisations need to be focused and they need to cooperate.

USAS is the Olympic Committee member, and the contact with the IOC. But I doubt they run all the local competitions. That's not their focus or purpose.

Just searching quickly, and from my previous editing of the wikipage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sports_in_Canada, I know that skeet and trap are USAS/ISSF events. But local development is through the NSSA-NSCA (National Skeet Shooting Association and the National Sporting Clays Association). Not USAS (or FTC-SFC for Canada).

Different concentrations, different specialities, different responsibilities.

ISSF (International) trap and skeet are *VERY* different from ATA trap and NSSA skeet...like comparing Formula 1 and NASCAR. USAS cannot and should not rely on ATA and NSSA to serve as local development for international disciplines. USAS' apparent utter indifference to local matches and anything outside of college and Olympic shooters is why I let my membership lapse. IMHO, a national governing body for a shooting discipline should encourage and promote the discipline(s) at the local/grassroots level for the good of the growth of the discipline. With greater participation, comes a greater talent pool to draw from. Sadly, it seems as though USAS feels if you have no possibility or interest in going to the Olympics, you are not worth their time.

It would be nice if another organization (maybe CMP?) would take over the responsibility and do a better job of promoting international matches across the country.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:53 am
Posts: 341
sparky wrote:
Sadly, it seems as though USAS feels if you have no possibility or interest in going to the Olympics, you are not worth their time.


You don't get professionals without amateurs, so yeah I agree with this.

I also plan to prove their plan wrong, but that's a hope for the future.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 308
Location: Montreal, Québec, Canada
Chia wrote:
You don't get professionals without amateurs, so yeah I agree with this.

I also plan to prove their plan wrong, but that's a hope for the future.


And the Amateurs compete in somewhat different disciplines. The ISSF style shooting could certainly be promoted better. But whether it's grassroots or top down is kind of a Chicken/Egg argument IMO.

Fact is the resources of Canadian and US IOC shooting federations seem to be tied up in the top echelons of IOC competition and they rely on the other discipline focused federations to qualify and promote candidates in Canada to the best of my knowledge. USAS is possibly lightyears ahead of Canada if they are involved at college level. I'm not aware of any college level effort in Canada.

And while the USAS and SFC don't do much in the way of hand-holding or top down organisation, they both seem to provide a wealth of resources and guidance (if very badly promoted). The grass roots needs to step up to take hold of that guidance and do the work.

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- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:53 am
Posts: 341
I meant amatuers on air pistol. The type of shooting different enough that most U.S. folks wouldn't know what to do with an air pistol (except for bullseye shooters) except maybe give it to their child. Air pistols are considered kid's toys down here. Obviously I don't believe that but...


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:44 pm
Posts: 476
SlartyBartFast wrote:
Chia wrote:
You don't get professionals without amateurs, so yeah I agree with this.

I also plan to prove their plan wrong, but that's a hope for the future.


<snip>
The grass roots needs to step up to take hold of that guidance and do the work.

That might be the case, but if so, I'd still rather put my money into matches at the local level or grassroots postal matches than send USAS a dime.


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 Post subject: Re: New NRA $$$ Cry!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:57 pm
Posts: 12
"That might be the case, but if so, I'd still rather put my money into matches at the local level or grassroots postal matches than send USAS a dime."

Same here. Free pistol matches in particular.


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