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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:05 am 
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Any oil can be used on the exterior surface of airguns to prevent rust and keep the moving parts operating smoothly.

Pelgun oil is good for the seals of low velocity airguns that have either synthetic or leather seals. It is petroleum based. It is $3 but don't ask about the quantity. It is also good for CO2 cartridges but not bulk filled CO2 airguns.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Crosman_Pellgun_oil/222

The blue RWS airgun oil is intended for springers. Is this petrolatum based? It is $13 per ounce. That is a bargin at only $1,600 per gallon.
http://www.pyramydair.com/search-result ... 1&saSearch

Silicone oil is used on the seals for high velocity airguns and PCP's to avoid Deiseling.
RWS silicone oil is $8 for a half ounce. That is about $1,000 per gallon!
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/RWS_Air_C ... 50_oz/3002

Hill air pump grease is $10 for 15 grams. That is $300 per pound.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hill_Hand ... _Tube/5765

FWB 'special grease' is used on the O-rings of PCP's. It is $12 for 4 grams. That is $1,400 per pound!
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Feinwerkb ... Ps_4g/4912

Walther grease does not identify it's contents. It is $18 for 30 ml. That is $2,270 per gallon.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Walther_P ... _30ml/4712

What type to use on gas ram airgun seals and the ram itself?

It seems curious to me that in a sport that is so technical, that the ingredients of many of the oils that we use to keep our equipment in top performance is reduced to descriptions as vague as 'special sauce.'

When our program had a camp at the OTC I really appreciated Keith Sanderson sharing that he felt that Mobile 1 was the finest oil for his firearms. It is all i use now. It is expensive for motor oil but a bargain compared to anything listed above. Obviously this product is not appropriate for many airgun applications but I doubt that any of these products listed above have the pedigree and money invested that Formula one teams spend protecting the engines in their cars.

Are we a bunch of suckers for paying these prices and using these unlabeled ingredients? How can you even get the right MSDS sheets without knowing the contents?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:17 pm 
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You missed out auto transmission fluid as a heat resistant thin lubricant that doesnt harm nitrile seals and is supposed to be a good general airgun lube.

I guess if you bought a gallon of airgun oil, bottled it in tiny bottles (which might last several years in use), and marketed and distributed it to a tiny pecentage of the population, Im guessing you might need to charge the same kind of price per bottle to make a living.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:52 am 
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I have all the oils and greases you mentioned except for the Walther grease. Some of them are over fifteen years old and I am still using them to this day.

Do I consider myself a sucker? No, I can assure you that you won’t be spending that crazy amount of mula on “special grease/oil” in your lifetime unless you’re overzealous on lubrication; under lubing is way better than over lubing, especially in air guns.

SPPcoach wrote:
What type to use on gas ram airgun seals and the ram itself?

I would use two drops of RWS chamber oil, ONLY on the piston seal of the gas ram airgun. No need to lubricate the ram, since it's sealed and pressurized.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:13 pm 
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The ONLY thing "pellgun oil" should be used for is inexpensive CO2 guns and pump-up guns. Silicone oil is a another option for sealing the o-rings in inexpensive pump-up guns.

Silicone oil has no use in most modern spring piston guns. Yes, Beeman and others have pushed it and recommended regular use of it, but it just gets shot out and washes out other lubes. Silicone oil was the lube of choice in the 1960s and 70s in guns with leather washer piston seals, as it would saturate the leather like petroleum oils, but not burn. Modern spring piston guns should be lubed with a very small amount of something like a lithium-silicone blend. That will last for tens of thousands of shots.

For gas spring guns, it's best to follow manufacturer advice, but unless you're rebuilding and repressuring a gas piston this is not something you're going to encounter.

Automatic transmission fluid is useful for things like triggers and firing pins, where you have tiny parts under extremely high loads. It has very high film strength, will stay where applied, and will flow back when squeezed out. It's essentially synthetic sperm whale oil.

For sliding metal parts, a thin film of light weight lithium grease is good.

For rust prevention, a thin coat of a polarized oil like Birchwood Casey Sheath or Brownell's Polarized Oil is a good choice. These oils adhere to the surface.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:20 pm 
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mikeyj wrote:
Silicone oil has no use in most modern spring piston guns. Modern spring piston guns should be lubed with a very small amount of something like a lithium-silicone blend.


I differ from your opinion. There are different grades of silicone oil. The one recommended for use in modern spring piston guns is a refined synthetic silicone oil that has a high flashpoint. Lithium will work in lower powered spring piston guns, but will detonate (when it migrates into the compression chamber) in high powered springers.

There are some piston seals in the market that are teflon or moly impregnated and only require very little lubrication.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:48 pm 
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kevinweiho wrote:
mikeyj wrote:
Silicone oil has no use in most modern spring piston guns. Modern spring piston guns should be lubed with a very small amount of something like a lithium-silicone blend.


I differ from your opinion. There are different grades of silicone oil. The one recommended for use in modern spring piston guns is a refined synthetic silicone oil that has a high flashpoint. Lithium will work in lower powered spring piston guns, but will detonate (when it migrates into the compression chamber) in high powered springers.

There are some piston seals in the market that are teflon or moly impregnated and only require very little lubrication.


I'm talking about the high grade sold by Beeman, RWS, and others as spring gun piston lube.

Airgun writer Ladd Fanta discovered back in the 1970s that this was a better choice for spring guns than the petroleum lube they shipped with. He recommended washing out the existing lube with Dri-Slide and then adding the silicone oil. Bob Law at Air Rifle Hwadquarters helped popularize the use of this and other modern synthetics. He did a lot of experimenting with tuning these guns.

Robert Beeman continued to recommend these tune-ups after the spring gun makers replaced their leather seals with synthetic ones, and others followed. But modern synthetic seals are very different from leather seals. They don't absorb lubricant, and they have self-lubricating properties. What you need is a lube that will provide a thin film on the cylinder surface and won't run out. I just rebuilt a Beeman R7 with a kit from Vortek, who recommen putting a thin smear of their supplied lube on the piston. No oil.

So I'll repeat: Do not use silicone oil on spring piston guns with synthetic pistons.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:05 pm 
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When I rebuild spring airguns I use CRC engine assembly lube with extra Molybdenum. Works great and has held up for years.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:36 pm 
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mikeyj wrote:
Modern spring piston guns should be lubed with a very small amount of something like a lithium-silicone blend.

What specific product has this blend?

mikeyj wrote:
For rust prevention, a thin coat of a polarized oil like Birchwood Casey Sheath or Brownell's Polarized Oil is a good choice. These oils adhere to the surface.

Interesting, what makes an oil 'polarized' and is this what makes it adhere?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:56 am 
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mikeyj wrote:
I'm talking about the high grade sold by Beeman, RWS, and others as spring gun piston lube. But modern synthetic seals are very different from leather seals. They don't absorb lubricant, and they have self-lubricating properties. What you need is a lube that will provide a thin film on the cylinder surface and won't run out. I just rebuilt a Beeman R7 with a kit from Vortek, who recommen putting a thin smear of their supplied lube on the piston. No oil. So I'll repeat: Do not use silicone oil on spring piston guns with synthetic pistons.


Just to make it clear: DO USE silicone chamber oil on your synthetic seals. It forms a film of lubricant that seals the edges of the piston seal. Only lubricate the piston seal of spring piston airguns when it starts making a honking noise when cocking the gun. One or two drops for every 1.000 shots is sufficient.

Unless you’re using a custom kit and seals (such as Vortek you've mentioned) that are already impregnated with Moly or Teflon, VERY little lubrication is needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:04 pm 
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SPPcoach wrote:
mikeyj wrote:
Modern spring piston guns should be lubed with a very small amount of something like a lithium-silicone blend.

What specific product has this blend?

mikeyj wrote:
For rust prevention, a thin coat of a polarized oil like Birchwood Casey Sheath or Brownell's Polarized Oil is a good choice. These oils adhere to the surface.

Interesting, what makes an oil 'polarized' and is this what makes it adhere?


There are many makers of good lubes. Air Rifle Headquarters (airrifleheadquarters.com) and Vortek (vortekproducts.com) are the two best known makers of custom tuning products for spring-air guns. They both have years of experience in developing springs, seals, sleeves, lubes, and other products.

As for polarized oils: I'm no expert here. This was recommended to me by an engineer with about half a century of experience in the auto and defense industries. I believe these are oils with polarized molecules having a different charge at each end.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:05 pm 
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None of the spring gun tuners today use silicone oil.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:40 pm 
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mikeyj wrote:
There are many makers of good lubes. Air Rifle Headquarters (airrifleheadquarters.com) and Vortek (vortekproducts.com) are the two best known makers of custom tuning products for spring-air guns.

I see they both offer moly.
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/inde ... ry&path=51
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/pag ... 251484.htm

Brownell's also carries moly.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-c ... od988.aspx

I don't see any lithium-silicone blend you advocated.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Fuchs Titan Ultralube (truckplus) 15W-40.

Clean is best. Off the dipstick if in a pinch.

I also trust and use CorrosionX Aviation on outside surfaces - good for dissimilar metals and penetrating lap joints in aircraft.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:51 am 
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mikeyj wrote:
None of the spring gun tuners today use silicone oil.

You have to accept the fact that your average Joe is not a tuner. Not all of them have the know-how, time, and are willing to spend the extra cost to “improve” their new or old airgun.

They highly believe that if it ain’t broke, don`t fix it. Silicone chamber oil is the easiest way for them to give the necessary maintenance to their spring piston airguns.


Last edited by kevinweiho on Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:10 am 
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SamEEE wrote:
I also trust and use CorrosionX Aviation on outside surfaces - good for dissimilar metals and penetrating lap joints in aircraft.

+1 Highly recommended. I've been trying it out for more than a year now, none of my guns have rusted.

The oil should only be used on metal surfaces. It will affect o-rings and seals.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:24 am 
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SPPcoach wrote:
Hill air pump grease is $10 for 15 grams. That is $300 per pound.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hill_Hand ... _Tube/5765


This stuff is, as near as I can tell, a medium weight synthetic (silicone) grease.

I replaced it with Super Lube 21030, NLGI 2, which seems pretty much identical to the "Special Grease" that came with the pump. I paid a bit over $5 for a 3oz tube.

I doubt the manufacturer would recommend this, but it works for me.

jky


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:47 am 
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divingin wrote:
I paid a bit over $5 for a 3oz tube.

Half the price for six times the quantity. Seems like a real value.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:02 pm 
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What about Ballistol for exterior surfaces? Anyone using that? I've been happy using it on my standard pistols. Non-toxic and Gluten-free.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:07 pm 
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SPPcoach wrote:
mikeyj wrote:
There are many makers of good lubes. Air Rifle Headquarters (airrifleheadquarters.com) and Vortek (vortekproducts.com) are the two best known makers of custom tuning products for spring-air guns.

I see they both offer moly.
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/inde ... ry&path=51
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/pag ... 251484.htm

Brownell's also carries moly.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-c ... od988.aspx

I don't see any lithium-silicone blend you advocated.


Maccari's "tar" is, I believe, a silicone-lithium mix. That's just one option. Vortek's lubes are excellent. Andre suggested engine reassembly lithium. There are a great many non-flammable greases that might work. If you have a $500+ spring air gun you should probably use something sold by experts for that purpose. If you have an FWB gun with piston rings, let an expert do it. If you're an experienced tuner like Andre, you may have your own solutions. And if you have an old gun with leather seals, go ahead and squirt silicone oil in it.

I currently have six spring air guns, including two Feinwerkbaus. I service the Hermann Weirauch and Air Arms guns myself, and use Vortek and ARH parts and greases. I generally leave the FWBs and the Theoben to David Slade at Airgunweks as he's factory certified in both.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:07 pm 
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SPPcoach wrote:
mikeyj wrote:
There are many makers of good lubes. Air Rifle Headquarters (airrifleheadquarters.com) and Vortek (vortekproducts.com) are the two best known makers of custom tuning products for spring-air guns.

I see they both offer moly.
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/inde ... ry&path=51
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/pag ... 251484.htm

Brownell's also carries moly.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-c ... od988.aspx

I don't see any lithium-silicone blend you advocated.


Maccari's "tar" is, I believe, a silicone-lithium mix. That's just one option. Vortek's lubes are excellent. Andre suggested engine reassembly lithium. There are a great many non-flammable greases that might work. If you have a $500+ spring air gun you should probably use something sold by experts for that purpose. If you have an FWB gun with piston rings, let an expert do it. If you're an experienced tuner like Andre, you may have your own solutions. And if you have an old gun with leather seals, go ahead and squirt silicone oil in it.

I currently have six spring air guns, including two Feinwerkbaus. I service the Hermann Weirauch and Air Arms guns myself, and use Vortek and ARH parts and greases. I generally leave the FWBs and the Theoben to David Slade at Airgunweks as he's factory certified in both.


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