TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:13 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Dallas, Texas
I love this! The two systems arguing around the issue. As a (former) scientist, I would say that the control experiment would be for the Trace team to produce a head-to-head video to counter SCATT's. Thousands (hundreds? A few dozen?) of shooters await the result.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 923
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Ricardo wrote:
I love this! The two systems arguing around the issue. As a (former) scientist, I would say that the control experiment would be for the Trace team to produce a head-to-head video to counter SCATT's. Thousands (hundreds? A few dozen?) of shooters await the result.

Big +1

The ball is rolling... time for Trace to kick it forward!
Based on that video alone I would not buy a Trace system...


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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:53 pm
Posts: 15
Bakerman wrote:
ChipEck wrote:
What jumped out at me even more than the speed; is the Scatt drew nice round lines and the other product was horrible. If I want to check my hold I could not do it with the competitor's product.

Chip


If anyone takes a closer look at the video - it's fairly noticable, that the top of TRACE sensor casing is cut wide open for unknown reasons.

Taking this into account and the fact that this video is created and posted by official SCATT representative I think everyone should understand that such test doesn't represent the real comparision of the systems.

Valērijs
TRACE Team


Well, we weren't planning on bringing this up, but since the Trace representative did, then okay: For anyone with a pair of eyes it is evident that TRACE "borrowed" quite a few ideas from SCATT while making their system. So we wanted to see just how closely they copied it. The only way to look inside the TRACE's plastic 3D-printed body is to cut out a few windows. We did. Turned out that TRACE copied many things from SCATT, but the high quality of components and work isn't one of them. Because all it is inside is a cheap $15 Chinese webcam which cannot physically offer the necessary accuracy and quality of data for competitive shooters, no matter how you process it. This finding is what actually prompted us to perform the test in the first place. So don't worry, the TRACE unit we tested is intact inside, pictures attached.

Also, the fact that I am a SCATT representative doesn't make my post any less credible than your posts, as a TRACE representative. Actually, my credibility is supported by 25+ years that SCATT has been developing, and offering industry-leading shooter training systems to world's best shooters. On the other hand TRACE's credibility can be summed up by one year of manufacturing a SCATT imitation.

Anyway, we will soon publish a second, longer and more elaborate test, with another TRACE device, so that the shooters could see more details on the difference between the capabilities of the SCATT system and the TRACE on their own.

Moreover, the SCATT company is ready to perform a series of automated performance, speed and accuracy tests, open to the public, at any major international shooting competition.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:06 pm
Posts: 6
rmca wrote:
Big +1
The ball is rolling... time for Trace to kick it forward!
Based on that video alone I would not buy a Trace system...

I would very much like to see a formal response from Trace to this video and discussion. Of course I understand it was made by their competitor with the intention to discredit the Trace device and they have opened and possibly tampered with the device or tailored the testing to achieve the desired result, but as an owner of a trace unit I have personally experienced these large sharp wild deviations that I know are not real with respect to the hold. The lag appears to be something that has been greatly exaggerated in the video but I do notice some lag between sights coming on to target and the trace line appearing on screen in my unscientific testing, maybe only a second or two but it is there.
Trace please reassure your customer base and respond to us telling us what is being done to address these performance issues and the expected timeframe involved to to rectify these performance issues. If the only way to rectify this is by hardware replacement I would hope Trace will have the integrity to do that for the customers that have put their trust in your company's marketing and performance claims by purchasing this device as early adopters.
Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:13 pm
Posts: 3
rmca wrote:
Ricardo wrote:
I love this! The two systems arguing around the issue. As a (former) scientist, I would say that the control experiment would be for the Trace team to produce a head-to-head video to counter SCATT's. Thousands (hundreds? A few dozen?) of shooters await the result.

Big +1

The ball is rolling... time for Trace to kick it forward!
Based on that video alone I would not buy a Trace system...


Last week accidentaly met a friend at Bisley, who is a computer nerd and actually owns a trace trainer. While we discussed the accuracy issues he made some tests over the weekend to show the precision and sent me this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvmByaHLhHg

From his feedback - he had some struggle with the initial setup, but once the setings are adjusted the system operates well and is happy about it.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 pm
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal
TerryHunter wrote:
From his feedback - he had some struggle with the initial setup, but once the setings are adjusted the system operates well and is happy about it.

Any chance of a heads up with the scatt system using the same setup?
I'm probably not alone in wanting to see a review of the two systems from an independent source...

Thanks a lot for that link.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW SCATT MODEL???
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:53 pm
Posts: 15
TerryHunter wrote:
rmca wrote:
Ricardo wrote:
I love this! The two systems arguing around the issue. As a (former) scientist, I would say that the control experiment would be for the Trace team to produce a head-to-head video to counter SCATT's. Thousands (hundreds? A few dozen?) of shooters await the result.

Big +1

The ball is rolling... time for Trace to kick it forward!
Based on that video alone I would not buy a Trace system...


Last week accidentaly met a friend at Bisley, who is a computer nerd and actually owns a trace trainer. While we discussed the accuracy issues he made some tests over the weekend to show the precision and sent me this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvmByaHLhHg

From his feedback - he had some struggle with the initial setup, but once the setings are adjusted the system operates well and is happy about it.

Terry please ask your friend to run the same test with a 10m rifle target instead of the much bigger 10m pistol target, you will probably see a far worse picture. And if he tries the 50m rifle target you will barely even see a circular shape with the TRACE system.
And also, like I said before SCATT is ready to perform a comparison, open to public, with series of automated performance, speed and accuracy tests at any major international shooting competition.


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