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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
Decided to practice a lot at home and so I ordered a FWB P11.
Never having gone the PCP route before, I seem to be getting ready to get a tank and various fittings and get friendly with the local Scuba shop's compressor operator. Or is there a better way?

In case that is indeed the only path, is any one of these three tanks OK or should I be looking elsewhere?

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Vent ... Cu_In/4708

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... y&c=AIFICA

Many thanks.


Last edited by Amati on Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:06 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:34 am
Posts: 149
Location: Copperhill Tennessee 37317
Recommendation: Largest factor is 4,500psi vs 3,000psi. Only certain compressors can go above 3,000psi. For example, I'm on the Fire Department here in rural Tennessee - our compressor only goes 2,900psi.

Between the two: I'd go the Champion's Choice tank - "All day long." Also, to fill a pistol cylinder - you'll get A LOT of fills from an 88cu ft. at 3,000psi. (Also - to fill from a 4,500psi, you'll also need a regulatory for safety.)

Personally, I use a local dive shop (Kwik's Diving in Cleveland TN). Jim Kwik's deal is: Buy the tank from me (at close to Champion's Choice price), and he'll include the inspection, AND fill it six times for free. That's A LOT of air.

Inspections: Visual once/year. Hydro once every five years.

Bear in mind, buying & having it shipped - tank arrives empty. For liability reasons, your local dive shop will probably require a Visual inspect, and perhaps a Hydro. Also, there's a certain goodwill in using local folks (instead of buying one thru the mail to save a couple bucks & expecting the Dive Guy to fill your "paintball gun" tank for five bucks.)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5174
Location: Scottsdale AZ
It's not too late to return the gun for a refund. Then buy a SSP and avoid all such questions (and cost).


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
Amati wrote:
Decided to practice a lot at home and so I ordered a FWB P11.
Never having gone the PCP route before, I seem to be getting ready to get a tank and various fittings and get friendly with the local Scuba shop's compressor operator. Or is there a better way?

In case that is indeed the only path, is any one of these three tanks OK or should I be looking elsewhere?

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Vent ... Cu_In/4708

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... y&c=AIFICA

Many thanks.


I can tell you, I bought an Air Venture 6.8L 4500psi tank. My local dive shop fills it for $8. I bought the best and biggest I could afford. I didn’t want to regret buying a smaller tank and having to buy a better tank Later. IMHO
Orville


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Norfolk Virginia
Check around for deals
Most diving shops around me offers a tank with free refill for the life of the tank for about $200.00
If you order it on line,it will need to be inspected
One thing to keep in mind,if you do get a tank
When need to refill do not empty the tank or they will need to inspect again and more money of course!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:33 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
Thanks Jerber, good advice. I'll pay them a visit today.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5174
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Whatever you buy, whenever it gets down to around 1800psi you're going to want to refill it anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1546
Location: Massachusetts
Make sure you get a valve that tops out at the maximum pressure your cylinders are rated for. If you get the latest in dive tanks, they are likely to be designed for pressures that may exceed that. Many AP cylinders are only rated for 200 bar (3000 psi), but lots of dive tanks (and a few AP cylinders) are rated for 300 bar. If the valve on your tank (like a "K" valve) is only rated for 200 bar, the dive shops are less likely to overfill it and risk blowing up your cylinder (and you).

Read this from our host: http://www.pilkguns.com/scubasafety-shtml/


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:33 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 85
Location: Virginia
I found an aluminum 80 cu ft 3000 psig (~200 Bar) used SCUBA tank was the best deal. A recent hydro on the tank (and these aluminum tanks don't have a lifetime before needing to be replaced), inspection, fill, with lifetime fills (whatever that means) cost ~$125.00. Steel tanks cost more along with new tanks. As mentioned, shop around and if you use a 3000 psi fill air pistol then the 3000 psig tank - which will likely need a K-valve to DIN adapter - can never over fill or damage the air cylinder.

As a FYI, when the pistol cylinder is filled, it will warm up. Leave the cylinder attached to the SCUBA tank with the valve open for ~ 5 min to let it cool. Otherwise, when the cylinder cools, the fill will be less.

Here is what a K-valve to DIN adapter looks like:

Image


Last edited by 10M_Stan on Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
Gwhite wrote:
.... Many AP cylinders are only rated for 200 bar (3000 psi) ....
Read this from our host: http://www.pilkguns.com/scubasafety-shtml/


Gwhite, you are an invaluable source of information and I thank you for it.
The FWB-P11 has indeed such a 200 bar max. pressure cylinder.

The Pilkington guide to Compressed Air Usage is compulsory reading.
Nothing simple in this game within a game but I feel much better now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
10M_Stan wrote:
I found an aluminum 80 cu ft 3000 psig (~200 Bar) used SCUBA tank was the best deal ....


Thank you Stan. The only downside I can see to this whole chapter is that next I'm going to start looking for PCP competitions.


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 Post subject: Alarming news.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
Not good news I fear.

After reading the Pilkington Guide I visited the one and only dive shop within 50 miles and met with the owner.
He had several used aluminum tanks, just like Stan's ^^ and was willing to sell one to me but he would not fill it unless I produced a diver certification card. He said that it is illegal to fill any tanks that could be used for diving unless the owner has a current valid divers card.

Googling quickly proved him wrong as there are no laws in the US that require any certification for diving or for the charging of air bottles. Getting Vladimir of Pardini on the line didn't help either. The man was adamant and wouldn't even accept filling a small carbon fiber tank.

I later called two other dive shops, one in Georgia and the other in Alabama and got the same answers. Collusion? I have no friends with diver cards and no desire to go through a certification myself, so what are my options?

A pump is not going to work for me, I weigh 135 lbs and I am not muscular. Is a costly and space robbing compressor the only option left?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1546
Location: Massachusetts
There are stickers for tanks that say something to the effect that they were NOT to be used for diving. That supposedly would get around the diving certificate problem with some shops.

This place: https://saguaroscuba.com/product/xs-scuba-tank-stickers/
has them:

Attachment:
Not For SCUBA Sticker.gif
Not For SCUBA Sticker.gif [ 8.14 KiB | Viewed 214 times ]


You might also see if there is a paintball shop around. They may have a compressor, or know who can fill a tank for you.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5174
Location: Scottsdale AZ
SSP


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
That sticker ^^ is on BO but this one -large at 25.5"X 6" - is available:

http://www.onlinescuba.com/XS-Scuba-Not ... P5414.aspx

I'll order one and take it to the Cerberus for his inspection but I doubt that it'll pass.

Something tells me that this compressor is in my future:

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Vent ... _110V/7458

Freight free and -10%


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:48 am
Posts: 468
Location: Aotearoa/NZ
I have found that blowing from the lower part of the chest (in the deep diaphragm) can help; be sure to pace yourself. Or a SCUBA tank, for clean/dry air. There are some cute C/F wrapped tanks available, but steel is real. A fire department will have BA filling facilities - box of beers should get you a fill.

As an addendum on thriftiness: you could fill a lifetime worth of bottles for the price of a compressor.

_________________
Image Image


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1546
Location: Massachusetts
One other avenue to check is to see who fills the SCBA packs for the local fire departments. They usually get filled to 4500 PSI, but they might be able to fill a regular SCUBA tank to 3000 psi, especially because lots of police departments have divers.

The SCBA tanks are really nice, because they are designed to be light weight. Regular SCUBA tanks have to be heavy enough to be neutrally buoyant in the water. I suspect a lot of the fiber wrapped tanks for sale for air guns are re-purposed SCBA tanks. However, I'm pretty sure you can't easily fit a standard 200 bar valve to an SCBA tank.

This place: http://www.airtanksforsale.com/#TJ3_SLO_FLO_Valve

Has all sorts of fittings, including an adapter to fill a K-Valve tank from a compressor hook-up designed for SCBA. The catch is that you've GOT to have a pressure gauge to make sure you don't overfill the tank.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:09 pm
Posts: 37
The Fire Department has their own compressor and I'll pay them a visit next week.
Small 4500 psi carbon fibre tanks start at $350 :

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Vent ... Cu_In/4708

which is a lot less than the Air Venturi compressor, independence has its price.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:15 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Old Europe
Amati wrote:
Decided to practice a lot at home and so I ordered a FWB P11. (PCP)

Rover wrote:
It's not too late to return the gun for a refund. Then buy a SSP and avoid all such questions (and cost).


Live firing a Walther SSP (.22 rimfire) inside an apartment is not recommendable, in my opinion. :-)

@ "Amate": Get the larger of the available air tanks, 80 cu f. The smaller ones will run out of gas..eh.. pressure fast.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Norfolk Virginia
northpaw wrote:
Amati wrote:
Decided to practice a lot at home and so I ordered a FWB P11. (PCP)

Rover wrote:
It's not too late to return the gun for a refund. Then buy a SSP and avoid all such questions (and cost).


Live firing a Walther SSP (.22 rimfire) inside an apartment is not recommendable, in my opinion. :-)


What Rover meant is a Single Stroke Pneumatic air pistol not the Walther SSP


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