TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:09 am 
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Good luck whining and moaning and calling people names.
Won't convince a single one of them to see you point of view or help promote our sports.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:55 am 
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But what are those great promotional successes that we've had recently, apart from seeing FP go? I try hard but do not see how shooting is even promotable given 1) the current political climate, and 2) the fact that a new smartphone generation finds it too boring. Aren't we fooling ourselves by pretending that shooting is anything but a dying sport?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:39 am 
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shaky hands wrote:
Aren't we fooling ourselves by pretending that shooting is anything but a dying sport?


Amen to that!!

More precisely, disciplined shooting is dying because - among other factors - the younger find it boring and not adapted to their instant retribution culture.

As an instructor, I found myself somehow irritated (I shouldn´t because of my function) at how the mere concept of gradual gains through mothodical and constant training is alien to young people nowadays.

On another theme, the video games an Hollywood have taken its toll, too. Youngsters want lots of shots, action, things falling, exploding or anything like that, and for that they are willing to part with MUCH more money than a full decent competitive shooting equipment set and training ammo would cost.................

I will keep up my work because I love the sport, but I´m not blind: the writing is on the wall.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:38 pm 
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SlartyBartFast wrote:
Seems having all disciplines of shotgun, pistol, rifle come together and stand side-by-side to grow each others sports

Mhmmm. Seems the Scots have understood the concept meanwhile.
Sassenachs however are still too (stupidly) self-destructive to grasp it. *Sigh* Serves 'em right?

Alexander


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:45 pm 
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shaky hands wrote:
Aren't we fooling ourselves by pretending that shooting is anything but a dying sport?

I'll grant that the precision disciplines are in trouble, particularly in the United States. But these things are often cyclic. And there's a chunk of the "tactical" shooting community that is starting to realize that being able to hit a target at 25 yards is really useful. If all you know how to do is spray bullets at a target 7 yards away, using both hands, you are in BIG trouble if the Bad Guy has a rifle, or if you need a hand for something else.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:53 am 
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Alexander wrote:
SlartyBartFast wrote:
Seems having all disciplines of shotgun, pistol, rifle come together and stand side-by-side to grow each others sports

Mhmmm. Seems the Scots have understood the concept meanwhile.
Sassenachs however are still too (stupidly) self-destructive to grasp it. *Sigh* Serves 'em right?

Alexander


What's that about the Scots?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:07 am 
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BEA wrote:
Like I said, the liberal socialist weenies are running the show. The first step was just taken to eliminate shooting and it was a big step.

SlartyBartFast wrote:
Seems having all disciplines of shotgun, pistol, rifle come together and stand side-by-side to grow each others sports is a leftist liberal weenie type of thing to suggest. :rolleyes:

shaky hands wrote:
But what are those great promotional successes that we've had recently, apart from seeing FP go? I try hard but do not see how shooting is even promotable given 1) the current political climate, and 2) the fact that a new smartphone generation finds it too boring. Aren't we fooling ourselves by pretending that shooting is anything but a dying sport?


If you want to know why target shooting is a dying sport you can look to the NRA. You can also look to the attitudes posted above which, as a liberal socialist weenie, I find tiresome and off putting but most of all exclusionary in that they play to the current polarization of our political situation.

I don't know when exactly conservatives got guns and dirt bikes and liberals got granola and yoga but I wasn't at those meetings. If you can't imagine a world where a liberal might want to shoot than you're right, target shooting is and will continue to be a dying sport. If the NRA's long game hadn't been to promote fear and political polarization you would have more than just 50% of the population on your side. Personally I feel they missed the boat when the whole farm to table thing became popular as they had a lock on promoting hunting and "field to table" to hipsters that are going out of their way to eat local, learn to butcher but sadly not to hunt.

But go ahead and make me and all the other liberal gun owners feel unwelcome. Great promotion strategy...

Gregor


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:42 am 
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Gregor,

With due respect, it is rather unlikely that the decision of the international Olympic body came as a result of NRA's domestic polarizing activity within the United States. Your theory implies that restrictive gun laws and decimation of gun ownership in the vast majority of western countries, much like taboos imposed in schools and colleges on any exposure of students to anything resembling weapons, have nothing to do with it. Sorry, but this is hard to believe.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Well said Gregor.
Shaky hands, the NRAs political activism is what forced the split and creation of USAShooting.
Now the NRA fights with the CMP.
If the USA had a stronger target shooting culture, they might be able to wield more influence in Olympic shooting. It's US bullseye that influenced Olympic sport pistol IIRC.
And Olympics aside, the size of the USA if there was a focus on target shooting would undoubtedly have an influence on other nations.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Quote:
It's US bullseye that influenced Olympic sport pistol IIR


You may need to explain this one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:26 pm 
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SlartyBartFast wrote:
It's US bullseye that influenced Olympic sport pistol IIRC.

No, you are confusing things here. It is the standard pistol, first introduced in 1969 in the European Championship, whose entry was influenced by the American bullseye course of fire. Standard pistol is barely known in many countries and has never stood a chance of becoming an Olympic event.

In contrast, women's Olympic sport pistol (included in Olympics since 1984) was a modification of the men's Center Fire which itself traces back to the Military Pistol Competition, which was part of the first Olympics in 1896 but was subsequently abandoned.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:31 am 
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shaky hands wrote:
SlartyBartFast wrote:
It's US bullseye that influenced Olympic sport pistol IIRC.

No, you are confusing things here. It is the standard pistol, first introduced in 1969 in the European Championship, whose entry was influenced by the American bullseye course of fire. Standard pistol is barely known in many countries and has never stood a chance of becoming an Olympic event.

In contrast, women's Olympic sport pistol (included in Olympics since 1984) was a modification of the men's Center Fire which itself traces back to the Military Pistol Competition, which was part of the first Olympics in 1896 but was subsequently abandoned.


You're right, I got it wrong on that count.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:35 pm 
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I was on the team at the time we broke away from the NRA. I did not have an opinion, don't really remember what the issues were. I did not care. All I wanted to do was shoot. Whatever the reason, it does not seem like it worked out for the best, but you never know what would have happened if the break had not taken place. The fact remains, the Europeans run the sport and they have taken a big step toward killing the very important and prestigious sport of Free Pistol. As far as participation here in the states, it seems the matches are not conducted in a way to promote the participation of regular people, whos presence, money and support for the organization might be a benefit. In addition, they have adopted a complicated and lengthy finals process. Through this latest finals process, have they created more interest? Doesn't seem to be the case, since they have dropped Free Pistol. Are they trying to save money on range construction? In the overall scheme of Olympic expenses, and considering the ranges can used for more than one event, and the equipment sold afterward, I think the savings are a very small part of the total. What a shame and I do not look for them to change directions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:42 pm 
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BEA, free pistol was lost because the ISSF was never pressured to promote a women's free pistol event.
It was doomed as soon as the Olympics wanted balanced men's and womens medal events.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:44 pm 
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BEA, free pistol was lost because the ISSF was never pressured to promote a women's free pistol event and doomed as soon as the Olympics wanted balanced men's and womens medal events.
All ISSF events should have men's and womens events at the international level by now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:46 pm 
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I wonder who was complaining...or did they just decide to use that as an excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway. Eliminating FP is a biggy. I think there is more to it than equality. What events did they eliminate for rifle?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:29 pm 
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BEA wrote:
I wonder who was complaining...or did they just decide to use that as an excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway. Eliminating FP is a biggy. I think there is more to it than equality. What events did they eliminate for rifle?

This has been beaten to death in other threads on the dropping of FP from the Olympics.
Shooting had an odd number of events. So two men's only events had to go. One to add a women's event, the other to add a mixed team event.

What is needed is pressure to have ISSF W/C be inclusive of all events regardless of Olympic status. And as equally important, eliminate the divide between the events practiced by women and men.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Since I am not informed on what goes on, are the pistol events down to mens air, womens air and mixed air? Everything else is gone? Or is Rapid and Sport Pistol still there? Same for rifle...everything is down to air rifle? No 22 LR events at all?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:48 pm 
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My understanding is the three Air events you mentioned ( all 60 shots ) and Rapid Fire.....corrections to follow !


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:47 am 
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And Women's Sport Pistol, to gender-balance Men's Rapid Fire Pistol.


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