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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 181
Location: Norfolk Virginia
Hello all
I have a couple questions about aiming the rapid fire targets and rear sight adjustments on the Benelli mp90
I've been interested in the rapid fire discipline for the past few months and I finally got some targets so that I can train
I can't really do the 5 targets side by side because of the range policy that I go to so I'm just training with 1 target for now trying to get my shots with in the time
Because of the size of the target,I'm going to assume that when aiming, I want to hold at center of target?
I guess it is the reason for the side horizontal lines for?
For my second question
I have a friend who is also now interested in the rapid fire
So we were just shooting and of course he had to adjust his rear sight on his Benelli MP 90
But he max out on the adjustment and still shooting a little bit high
I tried it too.and I was a little high
I used to have an MP 90 but just sold it recently so I can't tell if this is a problem with his MP 90 or all of them
Is there a trick to it?
A different part that can be bought?
Please anyone with any help will be appreciated
I'm liking the sport so I hope I'll be able to find a place that will let me set up for the 5 targets
For now I got the 50 feet reduced targets but still too big to set them
Jerry


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
One thing to check is that the rear sight isn't bottomed out on the grip. I've seen that happen on quite a few pistols, especially with aftermarket grips, but I've also see it occasionally on factory grips.

Personally, I find the lines on the target a distraction. I have a strong tendency to look at the target, and lose focus on my sights. I've found I shoot better with a 6:00 hold rather than a center hold, and I don't have to shift my sights as far from my standard pistol setting, which is sub-six.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:14 am 
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Location: Norfolk Virginia
Gwhite
There's still a little room between the sight and top of grip

As far as what you said about holding a 6 o'clock aim
I'm having a hard time visualizing this because of the size of the bullseye
One would have to line up with bottom of actual target
Or am I missing something here?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:06 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
No, that's pretty much where you end up. Remember, this is not a precision event. You could also hold at the bottom of the target. The collegiate team I help coach shoots Sport Pistol, and a number of our shooters do quite well with the 6:00 hold.

All I'm saying is don't be afraid to experiment to find out what works best for you. I would guess that the vast majority of shooters use a center hold. Depending on the lighting, I find the black sights & black target center make the sights difficult to see, and as I mentioned the line tends to draw my focus to the wrong place.

As for the MP90S sight problem, I'm not sure what could be wrong. My team has over 20 Benellis, and I don't recall anyone ever having a problem adjusting for a center hold. If you push down on the top of the sight, does it still move? If so, then the elevation adjustment screw might be hitting something. It miht even be hitting the top of the frame. If not, then there may be a burr, dirt (unlikely), or something else preventing it from going down all the way. There could even be a stray detent ball stuck underneath it.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:28 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
There is a stubby spring between the sight body and the frame, that can get twisted or mangled. Perhaps one coil has become overlapped with another.

You can easily remove the elevation screw all the way and tip the sight up to inspect. Be careful, the spring is quite tricky to reinstall if it pops out though. Worst case you can remove the sight by driving the two pivot roll pins in, then drive them both out, then after R&R'ing the sight, tap them back in from the outside.

Is the front sight original? Maybe it has been "shortened" by filing down.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:43 am 
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Location: Norfolk Virginia
-TT- wrote:
Is the front sight original? Maybe it has been "shortened" by filing down.


That something to check because he bought it used so anything could of happened

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:45 am
Posts: 374
If you can get a taller front sight, you can shim .010 up the height. Center hold is the best area to aim if you want to be competitive.


Last edited by Greg Derr on Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
If his friend is shooting high with a center hold, he needs to shim the front sight, not cut it down.

That is certainly do-able. I've had to shim a couple front sights over the years. Beer can is a popular material...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:40 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:21 pm
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Location: Virginia
This may already have been tried, but there is an adjustment for the rear sight 'aperture' elevation, as described on page 27 of the MP90s manual: http://www.benelli.it/sites/default/files/manuali/GB/pistols.pdf

Apparently the sight aperture is an independent adjustment from the elevation adjustment screw. It appears the grip may need to be removed to access this adjustment.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Location: Norfolk Virginia
Well I got news from him and he figured it out
So it's all good
Thank you all for the replies
Now we can compete with each other!!!
As far as aiming,I think it makes more sense to do a center hold for me
Trying to do a 6 or sub 6 is not working for me because the bullseye is so big compared to my front sight that I can't center it
With the side lines,I can line up my sight picture and keep it center


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:57 am
Posts: 55
Location: Massachusetts
jerber wrote:
Well I got news from him and he figured it out


Great, but what the heck was it?

Center aim is probably fine, if the lighting is ok. Happy RF'ing!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Location: Norfolk Virginia
-TT- wrote:
jerber wrote:
Well I got news from him and he figured it out


Great, but what the heck was it?
!



Not sure exactly but he took it apart and put it back together and its all good now

Center aim is probably fine, if the lighting is ok.

So how do you aim?
And why "probably fine"?
What "is" the right way to aim in the 25 metre rapid fire?
I have search all over and can't get a real answer on this matter


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:43 pm
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25m Rapidfire my aiming area is slightly low (bottom of 10 ring).
When looking down the sights the target white line sit above the
level of the rear sight about the thickness of the white line.
The 10 ring is fairly large so if I lift too high and the white line
just disappears I will be in the top of the ten/nine ring.
If I am low the black below the ten ring shows up wider than the
white line.
It is nearly impossible to learn to shoot Rapidfire on a single target
as the the lift, transition and movement cannot be trained.
The difficult targets are (for a right handed shooter)
Target 5, lift to centre and shot break as you reach centre.
Target 4, the transition from lift to traverse.
Target 1, lack of over travel (travel to "6th target")
Use a sheet of paper with a 1/8" dot spaced 3/8" apart stuck on
a wall, dryfire with target just past arms length, train lift and
traverse, making sure that you turn (twist) from the hips and ankles
not from the shoulder (keep shoulder and arm locked).


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
10M_Stan wrote:
This may already have been tried, but there is an adjustment for the rear sight 'aperture' elevation, as described on page 27 of the MP90s manual: http://www.benelli.it/sites/default/files/manuali/GB/pistols.pdf

Apparently the sight aperture is an independent adjustment from the elevation adjustment screw. It appears the grip may need to be removed to access this adjustment.

That's only on the latest version. I think that was added roughly 5 years ago. They use the same sight on the Kite air pistols. We have a bunch of Kites from the early to mid-2000's (?) that have fixed sights, and when we bought a bunch more 3 or 4 years ago, they had the adjustable rear notch.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:57 am
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Location: Massachusetts
jerber wrote:
So how do you aim?
And why "probably fine"?


So, I shoot mainly Bullseye not RF, but my aim is 6 o'clock with open sights for either precision or action shooting. I have tried sub-6 with mixed results.

I say "probably fine" because with poor lighting, it's hard to do a 6 o'clock hold due to lack of contrast allowing to discern the rings being targeted. With RF that may be less of an issue since you just want to hit the much-larger area. Still, it can be hard to pick up the aiming point rapidly when you're hunting for the sights in front of the black. Good lighting (e.g. outdoors!) makes that much less of an issue.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 181
Location: Norfolk Virginia
TT
I also sometimes shoot bullseye and I hold a sub 6 for aiming both slow and rapid fire but the bullseye on those targets are a lot smaller than the 25 metre rapid fire that I'm trying to get into
I'm actually adapting David M point of aiming
The target is so big that it makes it very hard to center your front sight by holding a 6 or sub 6 IMO
But thanks for your input everything helps
I don't know how far I will go with this because there's no place that will let me set up 5 targets
For now I'm just training with 1 target


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:12 pm
Posts: 14
Question, how to you aim on a electronic targets and hold sub 6? These targets have no scoring rings.
I operate on the idea that if the scoring rings are visible I am not looking at the front sight.
The first time I shot on electronic targets I loved it, no irritating scoring rings on any of the targets to distract me.
I practice the rapid fire section of the C/F match on the Scatt, with a target with no scoring rings or horizontal lines. I just centre my sights into the middle of the mass of the target. Sometimes I practice the precision matches on the same target. It makes almost no difference to my score.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:03 am 
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Location: Norfolk Virginia
KH250 wrote:
Question, how to you aim on a electronic targets and hold sub 6? These targets have no scoring rings.
.


The expression of aiming at 6 or sub 6 is to hold your sights picture under the black bullseye at 6 o'clock or leaving a little space between for sub 6
I don't think it means to line up with the 6 value of the target
I sure can't see those rings!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
It is also known as an "area hold" to get you away from trying to make things too perfect. You set up your sight picture like this:

Image

This is a nice symmetric pattern that the eyes & brain can be trained to achieve automatically at a subconscious level. When I can do it (I've got 50 years of training to undo), it works very well. Part of the theory is that you are not thinking about it as three separate pieces, only as a whole. You still need to maintain focus on the front sight.

The difference in the brain is subtle, and if you've spent years thinking about keeping the sights aligned to each other & then keeping that parked under the black, it's going to take a while to grasp. When I can do it, A) it seems to offload my brain a bit, and B) I get a 10.


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