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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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 Post subject: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:49 am 
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
USA Shooting Statement on USOC Resource Allocation for Pistol


The U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC) has informed USA Shooting of the 2018 funding it will receive as part of its results-based resource allocation process. USA Shooting will receive the same level of funding it received in 2017 with $1 million earmarked for program support. However, one significant change to that allocation is that the USOC will not fund pistol initiatives next year.
Since being informed of the decision, USA Shooting staff and leaders have been meeting to determine next steps relative to the future of the pistol program. USA Shooting Board Chairman Jeff Price is announcing the formation of an ad-hoc pistol committee led by pistol athlete representative and Board member Jim Henderson. 
The committee will meet soon to discuss the ramifications of the decision relative to athlete participation at 2018 events, including next year’s World Cups, World Championship, as well as coaching modifications and Olympic selection procedures. The committee will be tasked with working quickly, diligently and creatively to address the needs of the program and recommend manageable solutions.   
This is the second big setback for a pistol program seeking relevancy as the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) chose to eliminate the international pistol program back in 2015.  The program helped provide opportunity and funding to athletes like Henderson as well as 1988 Olympic silver medalist Erich Buljung. 
The future of USA’s Olympic pistol program requires the development of new strategic partnerships, widespread shooting industry involvement, the support of our organizational and volunteer leadership and a commitment to excel within the context of this challenge. 
In an effort to maximize resources, USOC grants are strategically allocated to give the greatest number of American athletes the opportunity to reach the podium using a results-driven, resource-allocation process. In 2016, a total of $84.7 million in grants— up $8.4 million from 2015—was distributed directly to NGBs/Paralympic organizations and athletes. Grants are awarded to National Governing Bodies and administered through Performance Partnership Agreements. The USOC allocated $55.9 million in grants to more than 60 organizations—including 46 NGBs and High Performance Management Organizations—in support of sport programming. A total of 13 NGBs received more than $1 million, while four received more than $2 million and three received more than $4 million.
Despite winning just one Olympic medal since 1988, the program enjoyed some good results within its junior ranks this past season as team members broke six national records. A junior team athlete is leading Women’s Sport Pistol selection after the recent Fall Selection Match while another junior team athlete is third in Men’s Rapid Fire Pistol selection as well. 
We appreciate your support and patience as the organization works through this transition and towards an important year ahead. 


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:52 pm
Posts: 89
And we wonder why guys like Jay Shi, Will Brown, Brian Beaman, Jason Turner, Jim Henderson, Greg Markowski and John Zurek all quit...

When your own countries Olympic body doesn't support you, it lets the air out of your tires with a quickness!

What other sports out there get nothing from usoc?


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:58 am 
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Location: Corner of Walk & Don't Walk
SMDH


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:05 pm
Posts: 49
Yeah i got that email too
This is happening bcs we have lots of lousy leaders in our USAS
And those are not defending our sport, maybe Jim Henderson can make a ding into the current culture.

The idea is:
International pistol shooters can not shoot world class finals level scores, we understand that
But the same is true for the other olympic athletes other than the stars in swimming, gymnastics, Kim Rhode, and others
The rest of the pack stays behind score wise
Or am i wrong?
Is it possible that the WE international pistol shooters are the worst? And lousy?
My 550 in AP tells me, yes i am lousy
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:16 pm
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Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
From the experience I gathered from my country's shooting sports management, it´s all based on medals.

Those who get medals continue receiving support, those who don't are left to their own means.

So far, our shooters only have got podiums at PAG (maximum), and it's been probably more than 30 years that one of our shooters enter a Final, be it in WCh's or OG's, so the criteria is apllied most rigidly.

There's even a fixed cash reward for every kind of medal won (the more important the medal or the match, the bigger the prize), and - believe me or not - our shooters must declare at the beginning of the season at which competition he seeks to win a specific medal (v.g.: "I will win silver at the 2018 WCh in AR60") and comply, else next year your support will be diminished.

Awful state of things, specially when you´re competing with State-sponsored assembly lines of shooters from the Far East..............................


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Location: Haymarket, VA
guess i just need to be better than i am......win lots of medals and then maybe USA Shooting and the USOC will shower me with support.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
Naaah.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Location: Aotearoa/NZ
At least they had the courtesy to front the decision.

_________________
Image Image


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:43 pm
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If every Nation had this sort of thinking, then you would only have three competitors in every event....Gold, Silver and Bronze.
Sorry, Bronze is not good enough ......only two competitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Southern New England
I live in a State that truly hates the fact that the 2nd Amendment still exists. They constantly are putting more and more restrictions on legal gun owners. I can see the legislators here using this letter to make target pistols another firearm that is verboten for MA residents to own. They might attempt to make the argument that the US Olympic committee does not support pistol shooting so there is no reason for citizens to possess Olympic target pistols. Don’t laugh they have turned a lot less damming documentation into restrictive regulations; frequently as attachments to bills that even our most pro gun legislators could not vote against. Sad but true.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
I believe that we Americans are our own worst enemy when it comes to Olympic class shooting. As a nation built on a gun culture one would find it hard to believe we should not be able to put forward dream teams of shooters year after year. That is not the case.
There are a lot of reasons but one two that come to mind is our reluctance to accept the metric system. I would be hard pressed to find a range that I could shoot at that is marked out in meters. 25 meters is not 25 yards and that might not sound like much but when medals are determined by scores that are measured in decimal places to separate gold from silver, missing the center by millimeters matters.

Then there are so many non-Olympic shooting sports here, and speed more than precision seems to be the common denominator with most all of them. Two hand running and gunning shooting at big targets only twelve feet away is a lot more fun and interesting than poking holes in tiny paper targets with a glorified BB pistol.

Finally when we have a somewhat Olympic like sports (seldom) we have our own rules. Bullseye pistol for instance. Shot at 25 and 50 yards, or 50 feet indoors, with units of time unique to it, and where shooters are allowed to use scopes instead of iron sights, and grips that are closer to something on a free pistol than a sport pistol. Instead of a sport that a competitor might cross over into an Olympic event we have created something entirely different. American Trap is similar having almost no relationship to Olympic trap, and again it shows in the results.

I know Burn the witch...but this is what I see as a big part of the reason Americans don’t do as well as we should internationally.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:51 am 
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Location: Massachusetts
I agree that there are WAY too many competing disciplines in the US. If you want to shoot pistol competitively, there are about a dozen options. We actually did better back when NRA bullseye was the ONLY type of pistol competition, and they didn't have red dots or scopes. NRA bullseye is pretty close to Standard pistol, but that's not an Olympic event. I don't think the metric issue is a big deal. The difference between yards & meters is less than 10%.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
A 50 meter target is 14 feet further away than a 50 yard one. The bullet drop might be insignificant but the visual (sight picture) difference I find very noticeable. I usually dial it out with in the sighting shots, but I’m not shooting at an Olympic class level where a couple of 9’s might well be the difference between a podium and being an also ran.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:53 am 
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Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
Gwhite wrote:
I agree that there are WAY too many competing disciplines in the US. If you want to shoot pistol competitively, there are about a dozen options. We actually did better back when NRA bullseye was the ONLY type of pistol competition, and they didn't have red dots or scopes. NRA bullseye is pretty close to Standard pistol, but that's not an Olympic event. I don't think the metric issue is a big deal. The difference between yards & meters is less than 10%.


I somewhat agree with you.

Being a shooting history buff, I can't ignore the fact that in the fifties, when all handguns in the USA were held with one hand and iron was the only sight allowed (or existent, for that matter) people like Huelet Brenner, Harry Reeves and William MacMillian rubbed elbows with the world's elite...... and won!!


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Southern New England
renzo wrote:
Gwhite wrote:
I agree that there are WAY too many competing disciplines in the US. If you want to shoot pistol competitively, there are about a dozen options. We actually did better back when NRA bullseye was the ONLY type of pistol competition, and they didn't have red dots or scopes. NRA bullseye is pretty close to Standard pistol, but that's not an Olympic event. I don't think the metric issue is a big deal. The difference between yards & meters is less than 10%.


I somewhat agree with you.

Being a shooting history buff, I can't ignore the fact that in the fifties, when all handguns in the USA were held with one hand and iron was the only sight allowed (or existent, for that matter) people like Huelet Brenner, Harry Reeves and William MacMillian rubbed elbows with the world's elite...... and won!!

That’s my point before the US started making up our own shooting games and rules the US was competitive with the rest of the world.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Gwhite wrote:
I agree that there are WAY too many competing disciplines in the US. If you want to shoot pistol competitively, there are about a dozen options. We actually did better back when NRA bullseye was the ONLY type of pistol competition, and they didn't have red dots or scopes. NRA bullseye is pretty close to Standard pistol, but that's not an Olympic event. I don't think the metric issue is a big deal. The difference between yards & meters is less than 10%.

Kind of a commie way of thinking, addressing ones problems by denigrating the freedom of others, isn't it?

I know it's a bit of a chicken vs. egg thing, but I think the lack of an organization that really promotes grassroots level ISSF pistol disciplines, combined with not enough people willing to host matches is what really hurt international shooting events in the U.S. Another (self-inflicted) problem is when people say stuff like you can't shoot Rapid Fire with stationary targets and shot timer, you've gotta have a bay of turning targets...then complain about how there aren't anymore Rapid Fire shooters in the U.S.

Rather than giving in to what seems like a divide-and-conquer strategy and tearing down other (more successful) shooting disciplines, how about encouraging others host and support more local matches, and encourage more new and existing shooters of other disciplines (notice I didn't say just kids) to try some ISSF-style shooting?


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Posts: 217
Location: Wisconsin
I am doing something about it. On March 31st, 2018 we will have our second annual air pistol match. $8 gets you entered, use of an air pistol and pellets, awards, fried chicken lunch. Top score wins a Brazen $550 watch to boot! https://nebula.wsimg.com/8c4763c15308ed ... oworigin=1

Think how sweet it would be if one of the kids that enter someday win an Olympic medal!!

More information available at https://wisconsinairpistol.com




Chip


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Massachusetts
I have noticed a steady increase in interest in air pistol. There are a couple clubs in the area that now host matches every month. It doesn't have the legal issues in most states that firearms do, especially for Juniors. We regularly run air pistol events

It's a shame free pistol has been dropped at the Olympic level. People who enjoyed & excelled at air pistol used to try free pistol, but some of the allure is gone now.


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:23 am
Posts: 266
Location: Colorado
If there was a match, would you come, or would you sit back and tune in the college football game and bitch about the lack of matches in ISSF type competition?

Our club promotes the grassroots PPP program for kids. We currently have half a dozen youngsters shooting air pistol twice a week and really enjoying it. Parents are shaking loose with the funds and providing the kids with competitive pistols taking the kids to matches.

What are your clubs doing to promote ISSF style pistol shooting. You don't need 25 meters. You can shoot the 25m events on reduced targets at 50 feet. You don't need turning targets. As has been mentioned, all you need is 5 stationary targets and a IPSC timer. You don't need special pistols for 25m. Your Ruger MKII is sufficient. JR Sport Pistol is shot at a stationary target for the first 35 shots. Then it is back to the stationary target and IPSC timer for the rapid fire duel part. Ask one of the JR shooters to drag out his Arduino and build you a timer for Sport Pistol. Most 10 year old kids can do it.

Somebody out there on the left coast once made a movie with a motto in it. If you build it, they will come. Why not start building it. See who shows up.

Rant mode Off


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 Post subject: Re: Get stuffed!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Posts: 1078
Location: Monteagle, TN
yeah, what Marc said.

and FWIW Marc is the kind of guy who is constantly buying used equipment from me to help keep that junior club going


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