TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:23 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:41 am
Posts: 16
Dear All,

Im a newbie air pistol disciple looking for a tip re nutrition that might help build physical strength. I'm 210 lbs / 6 ft so looking to lose some fat too.
If I lose some 20 lbs would this banish the stability too?

Thank you!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:17 am
Posts: 10
There s no difference how much weight you will lose. Question is what your weight consist of, literally.
Visit some forums or blogs about nutrition in sport for diet advices.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:41 am
Posts: 16
Thanks rasty_ryan, that's what I'm trying to do.


I've stumbled upon these https://www.traceshooting.com/single-po ... uld-Follow
https://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/fac ... /shooting/

Question about the energy too - carbs give fast energy which is good for training. Getting off carbs too much puts me in a blue funk. I'm trying to put it on balance though.
Is there someone who's tried dieting for a while already? I would highly appreciate experience sharing


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:11 am
Posts: 102
Location: Haymarket, VA
i recommend contacting a registered dietitian, one that has some insight into sports nutrition will also be helpful.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:34 pm
Posts: 694
Location: White Sulphur Springs, MT, USA
Getting professional advice is always good. If you want to do some reading before that, here's a place to start: http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-r ... -a-calorie. Also, there are lots of "paleo" or "low carb" dieit sites on the web.

I've lost 50 pounds on various diets several times in may life, but always gained it (and then some) back. The problem with "going on a diet" is it pre-supposes eventually gaoing off the diet. Then back to the old habits, and weight gain. Bad for your body in the long run.

Two years ago I "changed" my diet, and lost 80 pounds in about 9 months (basically re-created a modified South Beach Diet). Have stayed at 75-78 pounds of max since then. MY key was getting rid of the processed carbs (bread, pasta, chips, white rice) and adding high protein (especially at breakfast and for snacks). Yep, getting off the carbs was very hard the first three weeks, as the body goes into withdrawl similar to getting off any addictive substance. I did continue to eat basic carbs (in veggies) for longer term energy, and now am able to have bread, pasta, rice, etc OCCASIONALLY, BUT I no longer crave them, and eat much less of them when I do eat them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:41 am
Posts: 16
Quote:
The problem with "going on a diet" is it pre-supposes eventually gaoing off the diet. Then back to the old habits, and weight gain. Bad for your body in the long run.


Yup, that's inevident but true!

Quote:
Two years ago I "changed" my diet, and lost 80 pounds in about 9 months (basically re-created a modified South Beach Diet). Have stayed at 75-78 pounds of max since then. MY key was getting rid of the processed carbs (bread, pasta, chips, white rice) and adding high protein (especially at breakfast and for snacks).


Did this somehow influence your shooting practice? These guys here claim stable weight is a must though...

Also, if we forget the _craving_, what's up with your general energetics when you're off the carbs? Is the world as fun as it been? :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:34 pm
Posts: 694
Location: White Sulphur Springs, MT, USA
The only impact on my shooting has been from other than weight changes (bad knees getting worse, and degenerating discs), but I do find the loss of the excess weight gives me more energy when I eat right (more protein, fat, and complex carbs like veggies).

I believe the link you posted is for those already at a "normal" (whatever that is) weight, and I think BMI is a shortcut that does not take into consideration body composition. Most pro athletes are "obese" based on BMI, but they have high lean mass and low fat. This is really a place you need to get professional help (Registered Dietician) to suit YOUR specific needs.

The world is just as much fun, I just get the dietary "ups" from the occasional treat (which are now higher in fat and lower in carbs). I have a "snack list" of things I like which are low carb, and if I'm hungry I eat (not a lot, but a snack). The energy is fine, but I no longer shoot in long matches, so no longer "carb load" (which just makes me sleepy now). Having good snacks (and especially good hydration) during a match is important. Shooting is an endurance sport, not power sport. Lots of water, tree nuts, fruit, pepperoni slices are great for maintaining energy.

Read as much as you can, then talk to a pro. Good luck. (and at your height/ weight you don't seem to be far outside the norms).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 478
Location: A new global Great Britain
Eat measured meals at the right times. Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner (before 7pm). Do not eat at any other time. If you eat when you are hungry the situation gets out of control. It's a flaw in the biology from the hunter gatherer days.
Making it a routine will help you keep to it after the weight has gone.
Take your time - it took you maybe 40 years to get where you are. It will take years to get back.
Count calories. It may be an old fashioned concept but it is pure physics and biology. Doesnt matter if the calories are fat, carbs or vegetable, too many kcal (over 2000 for most men) will make you fatter, and losing weight needs 1500 kcal or less per day. That's not many burgers. The Golden Arches place will amaze you with its online calorie data. A big M and large fries IS ENOUGH CALORIES FOR THE WHOLE DAY for most adults in a sedentary job. Nothing wrong with the food, it's the energy content. If that's just one of your three meals and you are not a construction worker then you are on an upward spiral.

You will never lose weight UNLESS you go hungry at some part of the day. Learn to value the feeling.

And don't take false comfort from the BMI myths. If it's high, for most people that means we are overweight or obese. A tiny percentage of men have a high BMI due to being ripped with muscle but unless you spend 4 hours a day in the gym on steroids it ain't us!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:35 pm
Posts: 19
What they have told me at the Olympic Training Center when I was there for a camp is that the ideal way to lose weight while maintaining muscle growth and function is to follow the following rule:

During a 7 day period you will have 5 regular diet days, and 2 refeeding days.

During the regular diet days follow: 12 calories per pound of body weight.

Refeeding days are designed to reduce the stress the reduced calories have on your body. One these days follow 15 calories per pound.

For macro nutrients follow: 35% carbs 40% protein and 25% fat. This is pretty balanced and provides your body with everything you need.

I use my fitness pal to track everything

_________________
Alexander Chichkov
USA Shooting Team


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:34 pm
Posts: 694
Location: White Sulphur Springs, MT, USA
Quote:
Count calories. It may be an old fashioned concept but it is pure physics and biology. Doesnt matter if the calories are fat, carbs or vegetable,


You might want to read the "why a Calorie is not a calorie" info in my first reply. Calories are burned differently in the body, according to that article.

Quote:
You will never lose weight UNLESS you go hungry at some part of the day.


During the time I lost 80 pounds I never went hungry. I DID have cravings for the processed carbs, but a snack from my low carb list satisfied the hunger. I still do the same thing, and have no problem keeping the weight off, even at an age when m y metabolism is slowing (70).

PS The only time I could eat three meals a day and not gain weight, prior to two years ago, was my biennial trip to the USOC Training Center, where I had quality options. Many athletes there need to gain weight (and the food is there for them), and many others need to stay under a given weight (and the option are there for them too).


Last edited by Pat McCoy on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 478
Location: A new global Great Britain
Both approaches obviously work for us.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:41 am
Posts: 16
{quote} from my low carb list satisfied the hunger{quote}

Would be so cool to have a peak ^^


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:34 pm
Posts: 694
Location: White Sulphur Springs, MT, USA
A peek.


Attachments:
Snacks.doc [19 KiB]
Downloaded 31 times
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 478
Location: A new global Great Britain
I suggest that drinking water or sugar free black coffee will dull the craving whilst allowing the stomach to rest and shrink betwen meals.
Snacks will only prolong the dependency like vapes or patches prolong dependency on nicotine where cold turkey might be better.


Last edited by TenMetrePeter on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:41 am
Posts: 16
Thanks Pat, that's a great insight. Definitely the diet requires individual approach, however I already adjusted the shopping list :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:09 am
Posts: 50
Location: Norway
I have lost about 20 lbs since early April. I did intermittent fasting, eating only between 11 AM and 7 PM. During this time I have also lifted weights 2-3 times a week and gone running/hiking/skiing on a not so regular basis. I'm 58.

Also this summer, although not spending as much time at the range as I'd like, I've set two new personals bests in Military Rapid Fire. First from 577 to 578, then from 578 to 579 (competition, not training).

In no way do I feel that being 20 lbs lighter has been detrimental to my shooting. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that being stronger has helped. Especially core muscles and shoulders. I no longer feel any shoulder fatigue during the rapid fire stage when shooting Centre Fire Pistol only 30 mins after finishing a Sports Pistol competition.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:13 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Dallas, Texas
Umm... former biochemist here, just chiming in. In my opinion (just an opinion), Pat McCoy has it just right. A calorie is most definitely not just a calorie. A low-fat diet tells your body to convert carbs to fat. A low-carb, "high" fat diet tells your body that you don't need more fat, so you don't store those extra calories as much. In the end, the best advice I can give is to eat like your great-grandparents ate. No junk processed food, few carbs, lots of fruits and vegetables, and protein in moderate amounts. Butter, not margarine or those other things. VERY little sugar and no high-fructose anything (fructose gets converted to fat like nothing). Another way to look at it is to eat what middle-class people eat in the developing world: a bit of everything, but no processed foods. Fresh foods. I teach this in my Biology class and some former students report that they lose weight without dieting. And stay the hell away from supplements if you're under 60 (exceptions made for post-menopausal women). 100 years ago, people just ate -you know- food. Not "food products." And they were fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:37 am
Posts: 88
Location: Florida
Pat McCoy wrote:
The only impact on my shooting has been from other than weight changes (bad knees getting worse, and degenerating discs), but I do find the loss of the excess weight gives me more energy when I eat right (more protein, fat, and complex carbs like veggies).

I believe the link you posted is for those already at a "normal" (whatever that is) weight, and I think BMI is a shortcut that does not take into consideration body composition. Most pro athletes are "obese" based on BMI, but they have high lean mass and low fat. This is really a place you need to get professional help (Registered Dietician) to suit YOUR specific needs.

The world is just as much fun, I just get the dietary "ups" from the occasional treat (which are now higher in fat and lower in carbs). I have a "snack list" of things I like which are low carb, and if I'm hungry I eat (not a lot, but a snack). The energy is fine, but I no longer shoot in long matches, so no longer "carb load" (which just makes me sleepy now). Having good snacks (and especially good hydration) during a match is important. Shooting is an endurance sport, not power sport. Lots of water, tree nuts, fruit, pepperoni slices are great for maintaining energy.

Read as much as you can, then talk to a pro. Good luck. (and at your height/ weight you don't seem to be far outside the norms).


+1 on Pat's recommendations.

At one time I was up to 340 pounds and way overweight. I have lost the excess weight by using Pats recommendation.

As for the effect on my shooting, being on the heavy side had no effect on sight alignment or trigger control. However, I was able to recover from recoil much better than my shooting buddies. This had more to do with upper body strength than overall weight. Yes, body mass had a little do do with it, but not much.

At the time I was able to get Maximum points of the Army PT test for push ups and sit ups. I was able to lock my wrist, elbow and shoulder that made recoil jump minimal with the .45 pistol. In fact I scored better on the .45 than I did with the .22 pistols. People who watched me shoot .45 pistol were amazed at how little jump my 1911a1 had in my hand. Again, this was due to upper body strength, not overall weight.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:51 pm
Posts: 177
Location: 11264 Egypt
Pat McCoy wrote:
The only impact on my shooting has been from other than weight changes (bad knees getting worse, and degenerating discs), but I do find the loss of the excess weight gives me more energy when I eat right (more protein, fat, and complex carbs like veggies).[quote][/quote]

Instead of concentrating on dietary concerns... Don't spend energy where it is not needed. In the shooting sports , all energy should be directed towards building the discipline necessary to shoot consistently . Shooters come in all shapes and sizes ... its the ability to maintain consistency under the stress of competition that counts .

Remember , it is more important to be fit than thin !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:48 am
Posts: 459
Location: Aotearoa/NZ
Dried dates for when shooting the match. A bit of a Faustian bargain if you over-do it. I usually have a cup of tea 20 minutes before a match.

Don't do anything drastically different to your every day life, but something easy for the body to have a go at. Half a handful of nuts and some dried fruit will serve you better than half a pizza. Save the pizza for after the match.
If you're into steak and cheese pies, probs best to avoid those before a match. Sausage rolls too.

Weight loss is mostly a diet thing and rather different, you want to run a calorific deficit in short. You can be a fat bastard and still shoot okay, so long as you are fit. Similarly you can be skinny, and unfit; or any variation inbetween. There is good evidence that the healthier your cardiovascular system is, the better your physiological response to stress. Also stamina.

_________________
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group