TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
It is currently Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:31 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Wisconsin
Question for the group. Out of a sixty shot string my hand will actually twitch on two shots. It is my wrist that twitches, not my trigger finger. I believe I am squeezing the trigger the same way. The twitch is coming from my wrist. I do dry fire and I shoot approximately 750 pellets a week with a lot of additional dry fire. I have this twitch in my wrist on dry fire as well. My average score is 518 (out of 600). My shots are always in the black except when I twitch. The twitch will be anywhere from the 5 ring to the 2 ring. I have tried exercising my wrist and my arm to no avail. I cannot predict when it will happen, but it is very obvious to me when I do it. I even tried changing my diet and no caffeine or sugar, without success. I do keep a log, but looking back at the log I cannot see a pattern or cause/effect.

I do not believe it is my air pistol as the grip fits me perfectly and I recently shot a 99 our of 100 with it. The twitch can come early, mid-string, or late. There is no rhyme or reason that I can detect. Any suggestions?


Chip


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Massachusetts
What direction is the twitch? If it's 12:00 or 2:00, I get the same thing. I think it is a subtle form of anticipation. The "cure" is to get your shot off fairly quickly (which is good anyway), and to get a "surprise shot". Sometimes I still twitch, but only after the pellet is on its way to the black. Also, using a relatively relaxed grip can help keep the muscles loose, and less twitchy.

Another thing that can help is to concentrate on a trigger action that will result in the shot being fired, rather than thinking about actually firing the shot. Think about either constantly moving the trigger to the rear, or constantly increasing pressure on the trigger. Both WILL fire the shot, but the subconscious source of the twitches is less likely to be activated.

Continued dry firing (using the above approaches) should eventually retrain things to the point where the twitches go away. I'm still working on it, but it's MUCH better than it was a few years ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 500
Location: A new global Great Britain
It just shows you are a living breathing human. Some are more twitchy than others. I agree that trigger squeeze so that the shot fires as a surprise is how I reduced my fliers but they are what keeps me at club level. Coffee and cookies before shooting certainly makes it far worse!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:52 am
Posts: 89
Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
I have the same problem, I put the cause down to too many birthdays :-(

Sorry if this comment is of no help.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:29 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Pacific NorthWet
i have the same issue as well. Always to 12 o'clock-ish. At best is gives me a 'scratch' 10 at 11 to 1 and at worst into the white at the same clock angle.

I've tried to trace it back to the tendon and muscle in my forearm that operates the trigger finger but haven't been able to conclude anything.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5059
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Brian Girling has it exactly right. You can laugh or cry, but you WILL spazz out.

An older shooter I know calls it "The Yipes."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 1184
Location: New Zealand
ChipEck wrote:
I do dry fire and I shoot approximately 750 pellets a week with a lot of additional dry fire.


Maybe your wrist is telling you it needs a rest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Wisconsin
Thanks people. I guess it is nice to know I am not alone. I am 61 but I have been shooting Bullseye for five years. That involved 90 rounds with a .22, 90 rounds with a Center Fire, and 90 rounds with a .45 ACP (think 1911). SO I do not think I am getting tired. I hate "surprise" shots but I will try more tension on the trigger. I figure it is costing me around 15 points out of 600 so I have to do something.

Chip


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Norfolk Virginia
I've had twitches before but not many
Does it happened when you're not shooting?
Like driving? Holding a phone?
Could it be a pinch nerve?
Maybe the angle of the grip puts your hand in a position that might cause a small pinch?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 1184
Location: New Zealand
I didn't suggest you are getting tired. But, if you are shooting that amount and sitting at 518 average something isn't working.

Fatigue can cause muscle twitching, try doing less, it might help. Or just keep doing the same thing, it's up to you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Wisconsin
jerber wrote:
I've had twitches before but not many
Does it happened when you're not shooting?
Like driving? Holding a phone?
Could it be a pinch nerve?
Maybe the angle of the grip puts your hand in a position that might cause a small pinch?


Nope, only happens when shooting. Probably a lifetime of eating bacon and cheese curds have caught up with me. I only tried to "eat right" for 5 days. That could be a problem.:-)

Chip


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 217
Location: Wisconsin
j-team wrote:
I didn't suggest you are getting tired. But, if you are shooting that amount and sitting at 518 average something isn't working.

Fatigue can cause muscle twitching, try doing less, it might help. Or just keep doing the same thing, it's up to you.


You are right there. I never had a lesson in shooting. Maybe I am doing something wrong. I read "Pistol Shooting The Olympic Disciplines" and watched some YouTube videos on air pistol. I have only been shooting air pistol for about a year. I got hooked at Camp Perry during Nationals in 2016. Currently I have an Evo with a Rink grip that fits me like a glove. First grip I never had to add any putty or grind on. I am 100% convinced that I am the problem.

Chip


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 838
Location: Australia
Quote:
I hate "surprise" shots


You will have to find a way to "love surprise shots" as that is one the secrets to higher scores when combined with perfect sight alignment and follow through.

As far as the twitch is concerned you may have too light a grip force. Most shooters never question the amount of pressure needed but a good rule of thumb is to hold firmly enough to not allow movement, and not too tightly to lose some control over trigger finger flexibility (or squeeze the sap out of your wooden grip )

This suggestion may not be your answer but is definitely worth trying.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Massachusetts
My twitches are definitely worse if I tense up my grip. The onset after I settle is also much quicker. You can shoot air pistol with a relatively light grip, IF (and ONLY IF) you have good trigger control. As stated above, the lighter grip also allows finer muscle control of the trigger finger.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 11:54 am
Posts: 19
My coach says the grip pressure should be like shaking hands with a friend, not limp, not hard, just firm with gentle pressure.

I would say if you are training so hard put stuck at the same level as you are you are possibly practicing and perfecting a bad technique and need a coach to watch you shoot and give you some help to break the habit you have formed
Stuart


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Massachusetts
stuart wrote:
My coach says the grip pressure should be like shaking hands with a friend, not limp, not hard, just firm with gentle pressure.

Stuart

The "handshake" grip is OK for .22, but I think is a bit too firm for air pistol. Everyone's notion of what a firm handshake is like is a bit different as well. Try gripping the pistol and wiggling your trigger finger in a relaxed fashion. As you tighten your grip, if you feel any effect on your trigger finger, you've gone too far.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 500
Location: A new global Great Britain
with a well fitting grip and palm rest it should be possible to hold the pistol balanced on the middle finger and heel of your hand and no grip at all, and still squeeze the trigger. The fingers and thumb should simply rest on the grip. Try that approach and if it wont hang there with zero grip adjust the palmrest. It will reduce wobble and twitch quite often. Obviously this will not work with a firearm.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:52 am
Posts: 89
Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
IMHO the grip should be like holding a heavy but very fragile egg.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5059
Location: Scottsdale AZ
I have been talking with several older shooters (sometimes I talk to myself) about this. My opinion is that it's caused by a lapse in concentration followed by a startled "wake up." Sort of a "brain fart". Perhaps like the twitch that may occur as you are dozing off.

I'm not sure what to do about this so I'm trying a couple of things that I hope may help. There were nine pages on the subject of Pilk's only selling compact APs except to the anointed few. Could that help? I don't know, but I moved my front sight all the way to the rear and also added a heavy weight bar to my SAM M10. Preliminary play indicates "maybe", but I also have two other APs I'm leaving untouched.

Reading some of the above tells me that many of the problems are caused by a trigger jerk and grip clutch while trying to nail the bull as it drifts by. Nay, nay, guys.

I'm uncertain whether this problem has any solution, so count on continuing with your "spazz boy" efforts.

Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:55 pm
Posts: 838
Location: Australia
There is a good chance it's from something that goes on between the ears.

"Where the mind goes the body follows".


Last edited by deadeyedick on Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], lalka686 and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group