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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:30 am
Posts: 14
I have a similar issue, my wrist twitch goes towards 2oclock...putting the shot anywhere between 6 to 2 :-(.
My twitches are very less on the days when I run/jog earlier in the day. If I don't do any exercise, there are a lot of twitches. Guess it has something to do with muscle tremor when the body runs out of oxygen. Others can comment
Going for pranayam/breathing classes next week...will let you know if I see any significant change within a month

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“Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” — Yoda


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:58 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
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Location: Costa Rica, Central America
ForceAwakens wrote:
Others can comment

The Force ain't witcha, that's why you're twitching. You must master the Force...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:07 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:51 pm
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Location: 11264 Egypt
In my case , it has something to do with " trigger shy" .

As I squeeze the trigger I find myself unable to let off the shot and 'catch myself' drifting away from the sight picture .

If my concentration is all there , I abort the shot , if not then well.......


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:11 am 
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kevinweiho wrote:
ForceAwakens wrote:
Others can comment

The Force ain't witcha, that's why you're twitching. You must master the Force...


Agreed :-(. I have not been training daily, that can also lead to the delay in elimination of twitches.

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“Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” — Yoda


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:46 am 
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Posts: 1472
Location: Massachusetts
Elmas wrote:
In my case , it has something to do with " trigger shy" .

As I squeeze the trigger I find myself unable to let off the shot and 'catch myself' drifting away from the sight picture .

If my concentration is all there , I abort the shot , if not then well.......

I have the same issue. Dry firing a LOT can help. You need to retrain your finger to squeeze the trigger automatically so you can concentrate on your sights. If there is an outcome, i.e. with live fire, you begin to hesitate, and it all goes down hill from there. I've found that even using an electronic trainer can be counter productive. Just work on dry fire (with a target), with a smooth, steady, quick release without disturbing the sights.

The subtle details of how you do your trigger squeeze can play a part. If you are used to putting your finger on the trigger in preparation & applying some pressure, and then stopping your squeeze at ANY point while you come down or settle, you can get chicken finger. I get to the point where I can feel the muscle that squeeze (flexors) fighting the muscles that straighten out the finger (extensors). Suddenly my trigger pull feels like it jumps up to several pounds. If I don't put it down and then force the shot off, I get some combination of a jerk at 7:00, or a twitch at 2:00. On a good day, they will cancel & I get a 10...

If you can relax the muscles in your finger and ONLY use the flexors, the trigger will feel remarkably light. Working without a target & just concentrating on using the proper muscles also helps. Use the flexors to move the finger to the rear, and then RELAX to get it to straighten out, don't use the extensors to force it forward. You want to learn to isolate those muscles so you can just use the flexors. It's very easy to try to control your trigger finger by balancing the two muscles against each other, but that leads to them arguing & locking up.

You want to think about an action that will lead to the shot being fired, rather than directly about firing the shot. This gets your brain divorced a bit from the process, and can help you get a good surprise shot without anticipation. With a heavy "breaking" trigger (air, standard, bullseye), I think about increasing the pressure in a steady manner. With the very light trigger on a free pistol, I find that thinking about moving my finger smoothly to the rear works better. This also works well if you have a heavier "rolling" trigger where there is significant smooth movement before the release.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:23 am 
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Posts: 838
Location: Australia
Taking that leap of faith to start the trigger press and continue is one of the secrets in solving many psychological based errors.

The other is not trying for perfection or wanting every shot to be a "10 ". Have faith in technique and let the dice roll.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
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Location: Wisconsin
Wow! Many great thoughts and suggestions.
I appreciate them all.

Chip


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:26 am 
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Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
I imagine pulling the front sight straight back through the backsight, in correct alignment of course.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:47 am 
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Location: 11264 Egypt
Brian Girling wrote:
I imagine pulling the front sight straight back through the backsight, in correct alignment of course.


Easier done than said

Elmas


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:11 pm 
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I "paint" the area.

Once I have a first decent sight alignment, not perfect, but decent alignment, I start pulling trigger and "paint" the area.

Keep alignment unchanged, even after shot breaks. just keep "spray painting" the area.

Keep focus on front sight, keep pulling trigger, keep spray painting the area.

Works pretty well for me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:43 am 
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Location: 11264 Egypt
seamaster wrote:
I "paint" the area.

Once I have a first decent sight alignment, not perfect, but decent alignment, I start pulling trigger and "paint" the area.

Keep alignment unchanged, even after shot breaks. just keep "spray painting" the area.

Keep focus on front sight, keep pulling trigger, keep spray painting the area.

Works pretty well for me.



Sounds like a workable strategy
Been looking at SCATT system videos.
I think they would improve anyones shooting ... any shooters here have personal experience of the system to give us feedback ??


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1472
Location: Massachusetts
I have a Noptel system, which is similar to the SCATT. I find it very useful. It can provide a lot of useful insight into HOW you ended up with a seven (for example), and even how you ended up with a ten.

You can compare your "hold" to the size of the scoring rings, and observe how long it takes to settle into it & when it begins to degrade. You can tell if you are anticipating in some way by seeing if the shot suddenly lurches out of your holding area at the last second. The Noptel displays a box that represents the X&Y size of your hold, and you can see if you are wobbling more side-to-side or up & down. You can see if your hold is slowly drifting in any particular direction during your hold.

In some ways, there can be almost too much information to wade through. I'm an engineer by training & have a tendency to be a data junky. It may be a bit overwhelming for some.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:02 am 
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Posts: 21
Location: Norway
ChipEck wrote:
Question for the group. Out of a sixty shot string my hand will actually twitch on two shots. It is my wrist that twitches, not my trigger finger. I believe I am squeezing the trigger the same way. The twitch is coming from my wrist.


I've experienced the same thing a few times, but I've learned to detect it. I feel a certain tension building up inside the wrist, and after experiencing this a few times I know when to loosen up my grip to avoid this. I don't need to let go of the grip, just relax on the grip tension and maybe wiggle the hand/wrist a bit.

For me this typically comes when holding the grip relatively firm for too many shots. I'm right handed and the twitch makes my hand drop + rotate a bit towards right.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Posts: 149
Location: Mount Vernon Ohio
I logged in to post a question about my Tau but saw this and decided to chime in.
I have "the twitch" as I suspect all of us do to some degree. Change in grip strength or grip position can help. I worked with a physical therapist to come up with a exercise program that minimizes that swank (my term)
So, a visit to the doctor. Tell him what you are doing and ask for some physical therapy consultations. They can be very good at helping you with muscular or tendon related issues.
Some things I do. Get on a Bosu ball in a skiers stance (okay now get back on the ball) feet about 4~6" apart near the middle
4 or 5lb dumb bell in each hand. bend one elbow such that the weight is about an inch away from your sternum. Extend the other (as if shooting position) and make small figure 8's. Use your wrist and arm to make the figure 8's. Clockwise 10 then CCW 10. Switch arms, and same for the other side. Hard to maintain balance with the movement.. Improves pretty much all the muscles and structures we use in precision shooting.
A physical therapist is always a good choice for advice on any physical activity.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Location: Mount Vernon Ohio
Bump-it technique. Works in slow fire and especially well with air pistol.
Most of us use a two stage trigger on the air pistols. If you think of it as a graph. 0-100% about 20% is the first stage take up. From there a steady squeeze is required to drive the sights into perfection as the sear releases. I find it impossible to hold sights perfect then continuously increase trigger pressure. If I start with perfect sight alignment it is not perfect as the sear releases.
I developed what I call the bump method.
Get your stance, get your grip. Know where your finger meets the trigger.
Raise and present to target while course aligning the sights.
Take up the 1st stage, then just touch the second stage bump
Release, but stay in contact with the trigger. (watch the sights)
Take up 1st and 20% of sear release, watch the sights
release, to allow first stage out.
Take up 1st and 50% of sear release pressure, watch what the sights do (they will move, teach your squeeze to drive into perfection)
release, to allow first stage out.
take up first and 80% of sear release pressure, which direction did front sight move within rear notch.
release.
Take up first and 100% of sear release pressure, steer the sights into perfection with squeeze.
if it doesn't go, release
Take up first and 120% of sear release pressure, If it doesn't go, stop, put it down, reset, dry fire if needed to teach your finger how much pressure is 50%, how much is 100% etc.
I do a minimum of 3 bumps and max of 5. 20%, 50%, 80% some times that is enough to let it go. If not release then 100%, then release and 120%

My best groups are when it is breaking the shot at 80% or 100% of what "I think" is enough pressure.
The actual release pressure never changes. My perception and muscle fatigue does.
Try it and see if it doesn't help.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:40 pm
Posts: 11
Try working specifically on the release and wrist control, with supported shooting

http://www.pilkguns.com/anatoli2-shtml/

My coach teached me this and I could not believe it was so hard... You may sit, forearm resting on a sandbag, do your usual sigthing and release procedure.

Ohh, that will be all 10s? You might be surprised as I was, my fellow Padawan, but it may be as difficult as shooting unsupported.

Do 10 dry shots followed by a live one. After a handful of live shots you will get a better feel about how do you compromise each release with all kind of improper control, tension, grip, et al.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:51 pm
Posts: 185
Location: 11264 Egypt
deadeyedick wrote:
There is a good chance it's from something that goes on between the ears.

"Where the mind goes the body follows".


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:26 am
Posts: 127
ChipEk,

As one of the senior age shooters on this forum, I am only too familiar with the vagaries of old age.

First, surprise "spontaneous" shot releases are vital to accuracy. Any time your shot release becomes "deliberate", you are doing it wrong.
Second, any pressure on the grip from thumb or finger tips is a no-no. The more pressure, the more likely a twitch find its way into your shooting process.
Third, take up the first stage of the trigger, as you lower the pistol the the sight picture you want. You will be ready for your ahot release that way.
Fourth, trust yourself and be brave.

Probably the most difficult thing for me to "unlearn" was what I call 'chasing a result'. This is when you extend your hold, hoping to find the precise right moment to score a 10. It does not work. Your trigger release suffers because now it becomes deliberate, rather than spontaneous. Shooting well is all about accepting your "arc of motion", while of course working to improve it (less severe in size and velocity). Once you accept this fact, acquire your sight picture and simply release the shot. If your arc of motion is inside the 8 ring, then your shot could turn out to be an 8,9 or 10 as long as the shot release is spontaneous (forcing the trigger and making it deliberate has a significant chance of making it worse). As your hold becomes better, you will find you can contain the arc of motion within the 9 ring, and your score will be either 9s or 10s.

So, train your mind to accept whatever arc of motion you have on any given day, and once you acquire your sight picture, to subconsciously achieve a spontaneous shot release.

I shoot veteran 40 shot competitions. Two years ago I was scoring 275/400. With the help of some internet coaching (via Skype) with Dina Aspandiyarova in Australia, I am now shooting consistent 345-360, with an occasional 375. I am shooting well enough that I have entered a regular Senior (60 shot) competition in October. My training goal is to be able to do 380/400 by my 70th birthday in Jan. 2018 .

BTW Dina Aspandiyarova can be reached on Aspan76@yahoo.com.au.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:59 am 
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Location: Wisconsin
Thanks. Excellent post!

Chip


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:31 am
Posts: 17
There are lot of correct advises and comments. In addition I can say that it is necessary to develop the feeling of unity of arm and pistol (through physical and mental exercises), as if there is no joints in the wrist ; in order to not to worry about this area at all. It seems that at the moment your mind is preoccupied with this problem, but the more you think about mistake the more it happen.


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