TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:27 pm
Posts: 15
Hello,

After some doing some researching, I decided to get myself a proper .22 target pistol. Due to my state's restrictions, target pistols with magazine outside of the pistol grip are considred "assault weapon" and completely banned. With somewhat limited number of options, I researched as much as possible and finally narrowed my choice to Walther SSP with mechanical trigger.
From what I read online, early models of this gun suffered from some reliability issues, additionally several people mentioned that Walther SSP trigger is not very good. However, there is very little information about this gun and majority of it dating back at least 3 years. Therefore, I would like to ask Walther SSP owners to help me out and tell me what do they think about this particular gun, especially recently purchased/newly released pistols, any tips, ammo recommendations, or any other advices will be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I do not have any experience with high-end target pistols, for years I used heavily modified Ruger Mark 3 as a target gun.

Thank you guys!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
lol where are you from, every "assault pistol" has magazine inside the grip.

by the way doesn't ssp have it outside the grip?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:27 pm
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Hey hundert,

I am from New York and it is absolutely ridiculous law! Walther SSP magazine is located on top of the grip and it is being loaded from an open breech.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:27 am
Posts: 443
Location: Old Europe
Even the Californians were a bit wiser:
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agwe ... rms/op.pdf?

Normative grounding in NYS penal law:
"Section 265 (...)
22. "Assault weapon" means (...)
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics: (...)
(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the
pistol outside of the pistol grip;"


Do the sensible thing and contact your NYS State Legislature men or women. Send them the Californian list of exceptions. Enquire (politely !) about the sanity of the legal drafters, and ask them to exercise their parliamentary oversight.

Alexander


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:27 am
Posts: 443
Location: Old Europe
Post script:
In his rather good and fairly legible (although - as sadly common in US law school journals - hideously over-footnoted) article,
https://nysrpa.org/files/SAFE/Halbrook-SAFE-Review.pdf
my legal colleague Stephen Halbrook did not even once mention the target pistol issue. He concentrated primarily on rifles and secondarily on shotguns. Also and thirdly on magazine capacities of common defensive handguns. I have now checked the legal briefs in the NYSPRA's lawsuit (2013-2015) against this said law, whether the issue was addressed there at least:

Neither the first-instance decision of the US district court nor the appeal decision of the US CoA does mention this issue, not even once:
http://www.nysrpa.org/files/SAFE/NYSRPA ... cision.pdf

I wonder whether NYSPRA had at all argued this point? It should have been so easy to make.

Update: neither the initial filing nor the later memo of law of the plaintiffs at all saw and argued the point. :-(
Iudex secundum allegata, not secundum conscientiam iudicat !

Alexander


Last edited by Alexander on Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:27 pm
Posts: 15
Alexander,

Target shooters in my state are facing extinction!!! Majority of shooters are more interested in defensive/practical style shooting. I don't know if someone tried to contact local lawmakers to enact Target Pistol Exception similar to CA, even if somebody will do that this request will probably be unanswered since target shooters are extremely low in numbers.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:26 am
Posts: 689
Location: Australia
I don't own a Walther SSP, I tried one once and it seemed OK, but very light. The grip did not suit me.

From the people I know who have them:
After a little teething trouble with the early ones, and possibly a few mods, apparently now they work well.
They need to be kept clean, stripping and cleaning is a little awkward.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:12 am 
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Thank you JamesH!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:27 am
Posts: 443
Location: Old Europe
The other choice would be the Feinwerkbau AW-93.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: Massachusetts
You probably don't want to wait that long, but after a lengthy fight, Massachusetts finally passed an "Olympic Target Pistol Exemption" law based largely on the California approach. It CAN be done. You just have to find a sympathetic legislator, and start trying to educate the rest of them.

Legislators do not care about what is right. They ONLY care about getting re-elected. If they get more phone calls, fax's, emails, letters & postcards FOR a bill than they do against it, they will usually vote for it. The problem is that the majority of them won't want to go on the record as doing ANYTHING "pro-gun". The Olympics has a sufficiently squeeky clean image that you can get around that. DO NOT try to pass a target pistol bill. It has to be an OLYMPIC target pistol bill.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:43 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:41 am
Posts: 3
Hello.

I've owned a SSP since may 2015. I also own a Feinwerkbau AW 93.
The trigger on the SSP is very tricky to adjust to satisfy. The trigger on the AW 93 is superb, but the balance doesn't suit me.
I have a Rink grip with a different angle, and like the balance very much so I live with the trigger.
The child deseases have been fixed.

Peter


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:27 am
Posts: 443
Location: Old Europe
I am afraid we might be hijacking Sixty Lion's post and his interest... anyhow he appears to reside outside New York City, where the former "Target Pistol Licence" was totally (!) abolished, an abuse hat the courts astonishingly upheld. Also, the NYSRPA has fought a number of lawsuits (with little success), but their constituency is mostly not made up of formal target shooters. Allow me however to add that any exception should properly be styled "Olympic and ISSF Target Pistol Exception", otherwise even the most formal centrefire pistols (such as Pardini HP) would not fall under it, and neither Free Pistol.

As to the Walther SSP, I can affirm that the initial striong dislike and condemnation of the gun in Germany mostly has waned, after they sorted out the difficulties,. The gun was thrown on the market unfinished and not sufficiently tested, I fear.

Alexander


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:27 pm
Posts: 15
Thank you guys for your input and support!
I heard a lot of great things about FWB AW93 pistol. The only thing that stops me is a complicated scope mount, I want to have the ability to switch from iron sights to red-dot for both Bullseye and ISSF competitions.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:18 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1346
Location: Massachusetts
Alexander wrote:
I am afraid we might be hijacking Sixty Lion's post and his interest... anyhow he appears to reside outside New York City, where the former "Target Pistol Licence" was totally (!) abolished, an abuse hat the courts astonishingly upheld. Also, the NYSRPA has fought a number of lawsuits (with little success), but their constituency is mostly not made up of formal target shooters. Allow me however to add that any exception should properly be styled "Olympic and ISSF Target Pistol Exception", otherwise even the most formal centrefire pistols (such as Pardini HP) would not fall under it, and neither Free Pistol.

To continue with the hijacking: This is a problem with the way Mass did it. California's list includes centerfire pistols, Mass's exemption list does not.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4774
Location: Scottsdale AZ
"SixtyLion sez: I want to have the ability to switch from iron sights to red-dot for both Bullseye and ISSF competitions."

Naah. Then you double your chances of screwing up.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:01 am
Posts: 8
Location: Switzerland
Hi SixtyLion

I own a SSP-e since 2015. the dampening system is not working. walther removed the o-rings from the piston, so there is no "air pump" in action. The gun jumps and the recoil is quite hard, compared to aw93 or MG2.

cheers

_________________
Walther SSP-E
Steyr LP10
K31
K11


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:26 am
Posts: 689
Location: Australia
SixtyLion wrote:
Thank you guys for your input and support!
I heard a lot of great things about FWB AW93 pistol. The only thing that stops me is a complicated scope mount, I want to have the ability to switch from iron sights to red-dot for both Bullseye and ISSF competitions.

Does the SSP have a scope mount option? Oh apparently they do...

A key factor is grip angle, if a steep rake works for you then Euro target pistols should be OK. If not then look at some other options.
I wouldn't really recommend an Izh35 as they tend to wear out.
Would you consider 2nd hand? A Hammerli 208 could work.

I would consider the AW93 alongside the SSP, you have the option of last shot hold open (larger mag button) if that's required. The standard version is too heavy for me, there's also the ladies model.
Clearing jams on an SSP or FAS is a bit tricker than with a conventional grip-mounted magazine.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:07 am
Posts: 204
Location: Michigan, USA
Phil_S The dampening piston should have the o-ring to control slide speed. The damping cylinder and recoil spring work in conjunction with each other. You have more recoil because the slide speed is excessive due to the absence of damping to retard it. Walther's parts list still shows the o-ring. I have had my SSP for a few years, other than being time consuming to clean, it is a very competent pistol.
Gort


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:44 am
Posts: 47
Location: Sooke B.C. Canada
I have owned an SSP-E since August 2016. Purchased new from Canadian dealer. I also own a Pardini SP and MG-2 RF for comparison.

The SSP-E has had 1 malfunction in about 5000 rounds. It was a dud round CCI-SV. I've put Eley, Lapua, Fiocchi, and RWS through it no problem, all are accurate and reliable. The E-trigger is flawless and easy to set. Can't comment on the mechanical trigger but a friend really likes his mechanical trigger.

There is noticably more recoil than the Pardini with the MG-2 the least. I have the optional pivoting barrel weight and find the balance very good others may disaggree. The recoil doesn't bother me and I score as well with it as the other two pistols.

I love the 3-d pivoting grip although it's a pain to initially set-up. The grip itself fits me extremely well but I'm fortunate to have an average hand that most RHM grips fit me well. Not as good as my MG-2 grip but then that was a custom order.

Takedown with the included stripping tool is simple and straight forward. Can be stripped for cleaning in 2 minutes. The tool is just to restrain the springs and it can be dissasembled without it. Suprisingly the design vents most of the carbon and crap out of the ejection port. The internals just don't foul quickly at all. I clean it every 500 rounds just because I like clean guns. It would probably run for 1000's without cleaning.

The sights are reliable and adjustable. Perfectly adequate for me.

I shoot this gun weekly and like the E-trigger for dry fire training with SCATT.

Only downside is price but I got a deal so really pleased with it.

I'll update after I get 20K rounds through it.

Brad


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 279
My own experience with two previous mechanical SSP's has been very good but Number 1 gun for me though is still MG2. Number 2 would be Walther SSP mechanical. I only have electronic triggers on air pistol and 50m pistol. Both SSP and MG2 have wide grip adjustability, the SSP has a better rear sight and sits lower in the hand but is too light without adding steel to the front, trigger complexity is about equal on both, MG2 wins on pure shooting experience when gun goes off.


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