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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:39 am 
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Location: Belgium
I read recently that 'Pole Dancing' would become an Olympic discipline?
It seems like this issue has been going on for a while already.
However, I wonder how they are going to solve the 'gender' issue that was at the base for removing the Free Pistol event from the program?
I'm quite sure that the 'Pole' competition will draw lots of viewers. If the number of spectators (and the advertisement revenues!) are going to become the main standard to qualify as an Olympic discipline, there will be few sports left.

Keep on shooting though!
Regards,
Guy


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:01 pm 
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I'm always very disappointed by the reaction of shooting sports participants online.
IMO, focus of our ire should be the failure of the ISSF and all the member national federations to make the ISSF competitions more gender neutral.

Men should have:
- 25m Pistol

Women should have:
- 25m Center Fire Pistol
- 25m Rapid Fire Pistol
- 25m Standard Pistol
- 50m Pistol
- 50m Running Target
- 50m Running Target Mixed
- 300m Standard Rifle

50m pistol lost out because the ISSF and federations have been too gender biased to promote the sport with women by locking them out of even non-Olympic competition.

For the foreseeable future, 10m running target or running target mixed with air rifle stands a better chance of being added as an Olympic sport than 50 m pistol coming back because of the support for the air rifle and pistol events and the ISSF includes those disciplines in ISSF events and championships for men and women.

And unless shooting sports wants to lose an Olympic discipline, the odd number of slots for Olympic disciplines forces at least one mixed team event.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:12 am 
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SlartyBartFast wrote:
50m pistol lost out because the ISSF and federations have been too gender biased to promote the sport with women by locking them out of even non-Olympic competition.

Huh? I do not know about your neck of the woods, but my national federation has opened 50 metres pistol and rapid fire pistol for women.

Alexander


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Alexander wrote:
SlartyBartFast wrote:
50m pistol lost out because the ISSF and federations have been too gender biased to promote the sport with women by locking them out of even non-Olympic competition.

Huh? I do not know about your neck of the woods, but my national federation has opened 50 metres pistol and rapid fire pistol for women.

Alexander


But the ISSF hasn't. And to have a women's 50m pistol event at the Olympics, you need a woman's 50m pistol event at ISSF World Championships, ISSF World Cups / World Cup Finals, Continental Championships and Continental Games.

So, women can compete in 50m at many local, regional, and sometimes even national events. But even if they're the best in the country by far at the nationals, there's no place for them at the international level.

ISSF Recognized Events include 18 men's events and 12 women's events. 11 events as similar or differ only in shots fired. So eligible for Olympic inclusion (if there are two event slots available). 7 events are men only. 1 event is women only.

The Olympics IOC has awarded the ISSF 15 event slots at the Olympics. And the requirement that there be as many women's events as men's events. Essentially forcing 7 similar events with a men's and women's version and one team event to keep the odd slot.

IMO, the ISSF has to make the men's and women's events more identical and support the woman's events at the international level. And to promote the shooting sports, why aren't all the events that are not part of the Olympic games run immediately before/after the Olympics? The running target events would require money from elsewhere than the Olympic budget, the only big hurdle would be hosting the 300m events.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:23 am 
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Your initial incorrect assertion above was: "federations have been too gender biased to promote the sport with women by locking them out of even non-Olympic competition."
You have now rectified it in your response.
Thank you kindly for your awareness. :)

Alexander


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Alexander wrote:
Your initial incorrect assertion above was: "federations have been too gender biased to promote the sport with women by locking them out of even non-Olympic competition."
You have now rectified it in your response.
Thank you kindly for your awareness. :)

Alexander


Actually, I think the federations that allow women to compete in the men's sports or men in the women's are still not making enough effort. Or any lobbying of the ISSF to open up the rule book are hidden behind closed doors.

None of the letters complaining about the elimination of freepistol in the Olympics made any complaint about gender inequality.

And many complained about how abandoned men's events were crucial to the survival of the sports and crucial to athlete development. While totally ignoring that those same events for women weren't part of the Olympics (if there was an ISSF women event).

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:21 pm 
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In the Paralympics men and women compete in sport pistol and free pistol plus air rifle prone, and at world and European championships both also shoot standard pistol. So come on ISSF if the disabled can get their act together why cant you.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:32 pm 
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trev wrote:
In the Paralympics men and women compete in sport pistol and free pistol plus air rifle prone, and at world and European championships both also shoot standard pistol. So come on ISSF if the disabled can get their act together why cant you.

The paralympics do have their act together.
https://www.paralympic.org/shooting/about wrote:
Of the 12 Paralympic shooting events, six are open to both women and men, three are open to women only and three are open to men only.

But the Paralympic Shooting Para Sport events are (positively) an even number and (negatively) get 3 fewer events than Olympic shooting.

Looked up a couple rules for a reply to another similar thread. IMO the wording of the ISSF rules (purpose) 3.1.1 and 3.2.1 highlight what is probably the most wrong about ISSF philosophy and governance and why they can't "get their act together".

Quote:
3.1.1 The General Regulations of the International Shooting Sport Federation (ISSF)
govern shooting sport competition in the Olympic Games, World Championships, World Cups, Continental Championships and Continental Games.

Quote:
3.2.1 The ISSF supervises shooting sport events in the Olympic Games, World Championships, World Cups, Continental Championships and Continental Games.


So I start poking around on the ISSF website with that observation in mind and it's striking how the entire ISSF website is top down.
http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/championships.ashx
Olympic at the top, continental and the bottom. The continental pages for the Americas on the ISSF site is out of date. And following through I end up on a Spanish language page that leaves me totally lost as to how an aspiring Canadian shooting sports athlete fits in to the equation.

The very purpose and definition of ISSF existence and competition is defined and presented top down. The first focus is the Olympics. The rest be damned.

To be fair, the ISSF history is all about the Olympics with development of qualification events being a very recent thing (1986, http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/history.ashx).

But a change to the rulebook and website that put development, promotion, and "uniform practice" (see bowling quote) and local (or at least continental) competition first and foremost might make a start down the path to changing the ISSF mindset. With a change ISSF mindset, the mindset of continental and national feserations could also be molded more towards bottom

Couldn't find an ISSF document to compare but the IPC strategic plan seems to be quite inclusive and focused on developing competition. (https://www.paralympic.org/sites/defaul ... ooting.pdf)

Or contrast what can be found about the ISSF with the World Bowling Federation has on their "about" webpage:
Quote:
World Bowling first began to coordinate world bowling in 1926 as the INTERNATIONAL BOWLING ASSOCIATION (IBA). In 1952, the IBA developed into to FÉDÉRATION INTERNATIONALE DES QUILLEURS (FIQ – International federation of Bowlers) to foster worldwide interest in amateur tenpin and ninepin bowling, as well as international friendship by encouraging world and zone tournaments and other competitions between bowlers of different countries. It has been recognized by the International Olympic Committee since 1979 as the world governing body for the sport of Bowling


Of course, my involvement and knowledge is VERY limited, so these opinions might be misdirected and worthless. But as someone who is just starting out, these are my first impressions.

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