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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:53 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Tyler, TX
Though I have not gone PCP yet, I would be more inclined to if I did not have the additional $$$ of a tank and refills, special adapters and have to lug the tank around.

So a hand pump option is a little more attractive. Most I have seen on various sites cost almost as much and a spare AP cylinder if not more.

I found this air pump and would like opinions and thoughts:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIR-GUN-RIFLE-FILLING-PUMP-FILTER-STIRRUP-PUMP-CHARGING-RIFLE-CHARGER-HOSE-GAUGE/152230328114?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D903c3f4482164cb680b7df6827dc2b6a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D291963706119


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
it's a BSP thread, you need one with a DIN adapter.

You can however buy adapter for your pistol that has BSP filling adapter.

so, if you buy the pump and you have your air pistol, it won't work unless you buy a BSP filling adapter.

There are also BSP to DIN adapters, you need the male BSP to female DIN, if you want to continue using the adapter supplied with your gun

doesn't seem to have water filter either


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:20 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4918
Location: Scottsdale AZ
You've not gone PCP yet? Good move!

You're already discovering the expensive headaches that come with THAT! ...and to no benefit.

But, if you insist....buy a used SCUBA tank for $50 or so; you'll be much happier.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1397
Location: Massachusetts
I wouldn't get a hand pump without a drying system, like the Hill Dry-Pac system.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:10 pm
Posts: 182
I wouldn't get a hand pump... period.

If I lived in land-locked Paraguay (not much need for SCUBA tanks) and lived 200 miles from the nearest town, then I suppose I would pursue my Olympic dreams with a hand pump... and a prayer.

Water in compressed air is good for nothing other than rusting parts. Long before shooting a compressed airgun, I worked with artist airbrushes. Water vapor from a low powered shop compressor (40-60psi) ruined many a paint finish until I acquired a good water trap. There are too many bandaids required when compressing air yourself for any purpose.

SCUBA or SCBA compressed air has all the water vapor removed from it, because it's used primarilly for breathing air... you don't want a mouth-full of water a hundred feet down or while fighting a building fire. I consider dry air a benefit of compressed air breathing tanks, and water intrusion a defect of any hand pump, no matter how well filtered.

Any modern PCP pistol cylinder is made of aluminum. No worries there. But the bourdon tube in its pressure gauge is invariably made of brass, and subject to corrosion when exposed to H20.

The air pistol manufacturers go out of their way to ensure their fill adapters fit the DIN valves of any SCUBA tank. No need for extra adapters. A used, 3300psi SCUBA tank with a recent hydro and 3300psi of air costs a mere pittance ($125 or so) compared with the $2000+ price of a Morini or Steyr air pistol. You will spend more money on a pair of shooting glasses, or some other accessory.

Not to mention you'll probably spend a lot more money on a GOOD hand pump (always buy NEW) versus a used SCUBA tank (always buy used). Finally, consider the inevitable (and frequent) hand pump rebuilds to be equivalent to the trips to the dive shop for tank refills. All things considered, a compressed air tank (IMO) is more economical (long term) than any hand pump.

Not what you wanted to read, sorry. I'll use a foot pump to fill a car tire in an emergency. But I scratch my head at voluntarily using a pump in a hobby pursuit, especially since you can't really shoot at all for hours after such aerobic masochism.

HTH.


Last edited by DFWdude on Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:37 am
Posts: 86
Location: Florida
I have a similar pump. It takes me about 150 pumps to fill a cylinder up to 200 barr. By the time the cylinder is full, my heart is pounding. It is hard work. It takes me a few hours to calm my heart rate down for shooting. A small scuba tank is much easier.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 465
Location: B.E. Master indoor & out in WI
Purchase a Hill hand pump from Pilk with your proper adapter and don't look back.
Learn how to really use it to it's full potential.
Never an issue over the years.
YMMV;
Clarence

_________________
BE= Marvel unit 1 on SA frame & S&W 52-1 & Clark Sr. Heavy Long Slide .45
EIC= 92FS with KKM barrel (30pts. need a hard leg)
AP= Steyr Match LP
D.R. badge #99
10z n Xs


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1397
Location: Massachusetts
RJP wrote:
I have a similar pump. It takes me about 150 pumps to fill a cylinder up to 200 barr. By the time the cylinder is full, my heart is pounding. It is hard work. It takes me a few hours to calm my heart rate down for shooting. A small scuba tank is much easier.

The theory is to shoot first, and THEN pump it back up for the next session. Also, if you only pump it up enough to refill from one or two practice sessions, it's a lot less work than running it down to near empty & starting from there. Topping off the cylinder puts less flexing strain on it than deep cylcing, and also won't raise the temperature of the air or the cylinder much. Warm air can hold more moisture, and if you heat up the cylinder, it will have a drop in pressure when it cools down.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
I have a Gehmann pump, it takes 30 pumps to go from 100 bar, which is typically what you have after training, to 200.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1397
Location: Massachusetts
hundert wrote:
I have a Gehmann pump, it takes 30 pumps to go from 100 bar, which is typically what you have after training, to 200.

That's in the ballpark for the Hill pump. It might take as many as 40. Progress gets a bit slower up around 200...


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:55 am
Posts: 152
Location: Utah
It looks like the OP's possible pump has a foster quick disconnect at the end of the hose.
Get one of these: Stainless Steel DIN200/DIN300 to Male Paintball Quick Disconnect (Fits Steyr, Feinwerkbau, Anschutz, AA/CZ200, etc.)
from airtanksforsale.com
Or similarly: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Ventu ... nnect/5358

Here's a Hill pump with desiccant filter: http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hill_Pump ... 0_PSI/5501
Pumping requires patience to go slowly so the pump doesn't heat up to much and prematurely wear out the seals. And you will have to rebuild the pump occasionally regardless.
So the question regarding the eBay pump is: are replacement seals & other parts available cause it will need rebuilt.

The drawback of SCUBA tanks is they are filled to 3300 psi (maybe only 3000psi depending on the capability of the fill resource) then once the tank drops below 2900 psi you can no longer get your pistol cylinder filled completely.

Consider a small carbon fiber SCBA bottle that can be filled to 4500psi (same issue as above but much higher starting pressure). If there is a friendly fire station nearby they may have the capability to fill SCBA bottles properly. My local volunteer fire department had a monster of a compressor with 6000psi reservoirs (so they don't have to run the compressor to fill my SCBA bottle) and would fill my SCBA bottle for free. You'd need a fire department adapter to fill the SCBA bottle (see airtanksforsale.com). Paint gun shops & dive shops in my experience can usually fill to 4500psi.

Here's a handy fill calculator that'd allow you to figure out what size SCBA bottle to get based on your shooting habits. http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html

Running the numbers in the calculator (68cc LP10 cylinder) shows a 80 cu ft SCUBA tank filled to 3300 psi gives you 33 fills
If filled to only 300psi you get 9 fills
The much smaller & more portable 18 cu ft Guppy carbon SCBA filled to 4500psi will give you 22 fills.

The Guppy is ~$100 more than the Hill pump.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 409
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings,

Handy calculator.

The local dive shop sold me a used 100 cu ft tank. It holds 3300 psi.

Based on the calculator, I get 51 fills with a 68cc airgun tank if I refill at 100 Bar to 200 Bar.

I do not carry my tank anywhere, except for filling/testing. It sits quietly in the closet.

Filtering the water out with a hand pump would be my greatest concern.

Cheers,

Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 159
Location: Bury, Lancashire, England.
I have a Hill mk4 pump. It takes roughly 50 pumps to fill my Morini cylinders after every 180 shots. It takes me less than 2 minutes. Unless you have a health problem, it's not too difficult. It's less hassle for me than having SCUBA cylinders charged, plus I get a certain satisfaction from supplying my own power to the pellets. The support for Hill pumps is very good. I bought a full service kit recently, which comes with very clear instructions on how to fit it. The instructions are also on their website.

http://www.airriflepump.com/index.html


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