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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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 Post subject: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 am
Posts: 203
Location: Montreal, Canada
There seem to be two different techniques shooters use for 10m pistol...

With both, they raise the pistol to above the target, get the sights aligned and get steady and then slowly lower onto the target.

In one technique they release the trigger as they're lowering at the moment the sight picture is perfect (and then either keep lowering slightly - it's hard to stop the downward movement exactly - or attempt to hold the sight picture for the follow-through). In the other, they lower onto the target and then attempt to keep the sight picture steady and then squeeze off the shot.

Is one method better than the other? Does the best technique vary by shooter?

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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:43 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
All I know is that the first method is very difficult.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Massachusetts
I have never seen any coach, book or article recommend the first approach. I think Skanakar mentions it in regard to free pistol as a technique that some shooters use, but he specifically does not recommend it.

Taking up some of the trigger pressure as you come down is recommended, but the general approach is to then settle into your most stable "hold" and have the shot break shortly thereafter.


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5074
Location: Scottsdale AZ
This is pretty much what John Zurek told me, but you don't hang around long before getting off your shot because you immediately start "losing it."


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Germany, Pirmasens
ISBN 978-19343242264 and ISBN 978-0-9961448-1-0


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: Massachusetts
FWB_700_Alu wrote:
ISBN 978-19343242264 and ISBN 978-0-9961448-1-0

I did a Google search, and as posted, both these numbers are listed as invalid. After some digging, I found that these are:

With Winning in Mind by Lanny Bassham. A classic mental management book, but it has nothing on pistol shooting technique

Bullseye Mind by Raymond Prior. This is also a good book, but again, it's on mental management, and not pistol technique.

Neither one has any info on the original poster's questions.

If you are just going to post ISBN's, how about 978-3-9814287-2-8?

(http://www.mec-shot.de/en/products/literature/english-literature/pistol-shooting/)


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:53 am
Posts: 350
Odd. Those ISBNs don't appear on worldcat.org either, which means that no serious public library in any English speaking country has them. I tried them with and without the dashes. By contrast, GWhite's came up (nearest location: Hong Kong) instantly. Where did you get them from?

Corrected ISBNs: 978-1934324264 for with Winning in Mind. Bullseye Mind does not appear at all. I'm not saying it's incorrect, but that book is so rare that it's not even recognized by most major identifying websites.


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:34 pm
Posts: 696
Location: White Sulphur Springs, MT, USA
Quote:
Bullseye Mind does not appear at all. I'm not saying it's incorrect, but that book is so rare that it's not even recognized by most major identifying websites.


Not so rare, but perhaps so new. Published in 2016, and was promoted on this website. I find it a great follow up to Lanny's book, with what I feel is a slightly more functional sequence. Of course neither of these answer the original question. I don't know of any high level shooter using the first technique for AP, however some do in Rapid Fire.

Available at: www.rfpsport.com


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:03 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Virginia
Have you read "Successful Pistol Shooting" by Bob Hickey and Art Sievers (ISBN 978-0939414031)? They describe training (dry firing) so the front sight picture and subconscious are what cause the trigger finger movement. I think there is something to this, but it's more like an eastern philosophy IMO - which is not easily incorporated by western thinkers. The good thing about this approach is not much time is spent on target - the sight picture is either there or not and the path does not matter.


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:06 am
Posts: 203
Location: Montreal, Canada
10M_Stan wrote:
Have you read "Successful Pistol Shooting" by Bob Hickey and Art Sievers (ISBN 978-0939414031)? They describe training (dry firing) so the front sight picture and subconscious are what cause the trigger finger movement. I think there is something to this, but it's more like an eastern philosophy IMO - which is not easily incorporated by western thinkers. The good thing about this approach is not much time is spent on target - the sight picture is either there or not and the path does not matter.


No, I haven't read it. And looking at the reviews of it on Amazon.com makes me somewhat disinclined to order it. You think it's worth getting? I do have "Pistol Shooting" by Heinz Reinkemeier and Gaby Buhlmann ISBN 978-3-9814287-2-8 and it's pretty good.

I asked the question because the best pistol shooter I know told me that's what should be done. I've been doing the second technique... trying to hold a steady sight picture on target for a very few seconds before squeezing off the shot. Unfortunately, being in Canada I don't have access to a good coach (heck, Canada never even makes it into the ISSF World Cup finals!).

I seem to have reached a plateau of about 520/600, and maybe at my age (OLD!!) perhaps it's the best I could hope to achieve. I'll keep trying to improve though because I really enjoy the sport and the challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:34 pm
Posts: 696
Location: White Sulphur Springs, MT, USA
Quote:
"Successful Pistol Shooting" by Bob Hickey and Art Sievers
spends lots of pages saying (over and over) that you need to align the pistol sights with the target and your aiming eye, then make the pistol fire without disturbing the alignment of those four points. Dry firing is a very effective way of seeing that you are, in fact, accomplishing that.

Quote:
front sight picture and subconscious are what cause the trigger finger movement.
is used successfully in rifle shooting, and once learned it can cause a reduction of about half the reaction time (therefore half the wobble zone), but the rifle is held much steadier using two hands, than a one handed pistol hold.

In coaching both types of shooters, I've found that in pistol the attention to trigger control (allowing the unconscious to make the final small sight adjustment) works better. One of my rifle shooters (several time junior state champion) went to the dark side (pistol) and struggled until we changed the focus from sights to trigger. He eventually ranked 35th nationally in AP (as an adult).


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 Post subject: Re: 10m Aiming Technique
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Virginia
From my interpretation, "Successful Pistol Shooting" by Bob Hickey and Art Sievers, was mostly about describing why the USA has not put out international champions because of the established process of how to shoot a pistol. From my limited competitive pistol shooting experience, tightening up on the trigger when the sights are on target (or close) then applying gradual but non-stop pressure and aligning the sights as best possible on target provided my best scores. That approach started when shooting timed and rapid fire during Bullseye competitions, but I also found it helped in slow fire.

I learned of the book through Champion Shooters Supply (http://www.championshooters.com), which I believe was the store visited on our away trips to Ohio State when I shot small bore rifle with the University of Kentucky in the early '80's. I've read similar two-step simplified approaches for archery. I tend to agree with the basic premise of the book (i.e. sight alignment is paramount for pistol shooting, followed by trigger control) but not sure it's the solution to the lack of USA international gold medals in pistol shooting. I bought the book used via Amazon for ~$15 including shipping.


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