TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:16 am
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Location: Central Texas
While it's not directly applicable to Air Pistol, I will say on occasion you will find a pellet an Air Rifle just flat out doesn't like. Or conversely likes a whole lot. For me, I found when benching my rifle that RWS Basic shot one hole groups off the rest. Other pellets shot great groups, but not as good. It might be worth it to try benching your pistol and trying out a few different types of pellets to see if anyone surprises you (good or bad). It saved me from trying any pricier pellets, as I knew the RWS basics were more then good enough to get me anywhere I wanted to go.

-Jenrick


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Location: Luxembourg
I feel that I group better with the Basics...

I did try many sub-match quality pellets in my quest for choosing a training pellet.
I've also honestly hesitated for long between the RWS Training (0.53g) and the RWS Basic (0.45g) diabolo; but finally settled for the latter one.

I also shoot my matches with this pellet, I don't bother (or should I?) buying specific match pellets.
Low price doesn't necessarily always imply low quality, but it is of course always welcomed ;-)

Good luck with your search!

Cheers
Fadi

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
RWS Basic a match pellet? What a shock!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Rover wrote:
RWS Basic a match pellet? What a shock!


You know, I don't understand why people are willing to pay so much for a bunch of little identical lead pellets that are JUST THAT LITTLE BIT MORE ACCURATE. Or so advertised.

I've shot enough to realize that most of my issues with accuracy are (a) mine, or (b) mine, or (c) a pellet I never should have shot out of my gun.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:59 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 684
Location: Costa Rica, Central America
Chia wrote:
I don't understand why people are willing to pay so much for a bunch of little identical lead pellets that are JUST THAT LITTLE BIT MORE ACCURATE.

That wee bit difference can mean winning or losing. That's the reason why people are willing to pay the premium for "match pellets".


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
Posts: 5228
Location: Ruislip, UK
I have never understood the concept of spending big money on a gun and, over the course of a few years, even more money travelling to and entering competitions, and then not feeding the gun with the very best lead that I can.

I want to know that the position of every hole, good or bad, is the result of what I did, not the result of equipment/ammunition inconsistencies.

Even back when I was shooting 50k-100k of .22LR per year, every one of them was Eley Pistol Match.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:55 am 
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Location: Costa Rica, Central America
David Levene wrote:
Even back when I was shooting 50k-100k of .22LR per year, every one of them was Eley Pistol Match.

I guess you got fed up weighing, measuring, and sorting the rim thickness of the cheaper target/match rimfire ammo...lol


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:55 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:21 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Virginia
I tend to buy the R10 match pellets. I won't shoot more than 5000 per year. Perhaps I dry fire too much? At that rate, the additional cost over Diabolo Basics is about $60.00 per year.

While that additional expense is affordable, the inherent tinker(er) in me needs to try out RWS Diablo Basics, RWS Hobby, and Meisterkuglen 7 gr (which is what I always shot through my RWS Model 10 pistol). I'm also one of those annoying fellows that counts the number of shots per fill - a pellet holder makes that trivial - and then asks why a new $1700 air pistol won't shoot the number of 'guaranteed' shots per fill. The R10 match pellets don't turn my fingers black. I like that but still wash my hands after handling them.

Edit: after reading this - http://www.pilkguns.com/mako.htm
I am thinking that there is no practice (or match) pellet that should be chosen without testing. If the less expensive pellets shoot as well or better after testing, that's great!


Last edited by 10M_Stan on Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 226
Feel free to continue to buy the R10 pellets, somebody needs to subsidize us Diablo Basic shooters LOL. Heck if its anything like the rimfire ammo manufacturers it all may be the same stuff with just some lots that test better and/or have more visually checks to weed out any misformed pellets (even though I don't recall finding any bent skirts in tins of Basic).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:14 am 
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David Levene wrote:
I have never understood the concept of spending big money on a gun and, over the course of a few years, even more money travelling to and entering competitions, and then not feeding the gun with the very best lead that I can.

I want to know that the position of every hole, good or bad, is the result of what I did, not the result of equipment/ammunition inconsistencies.

Even back when I was shooting 50k-100k of .22LR per year, every one of them was Eley Pistol Match.


Sure, that makes sense for a serious competitor with a high skill level. I'm speaking of a more general skill level, and I specifically mean with air pellets. 22lr is inherently much less reliable than a pellet, so the differences are much more important. Air pellets, on the other hand, are simply shaped lead. The effect on accuracy is going to be dramatically less except at very high skill levels.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I think it needs to be taken in the context it was meant: serious competition.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:51 pm
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Location: Luxembourg
Hi everyone
Just an education question for my own understanding if you don't mind:
Is there any scientific/unbiased experiment you could point me to that demonstrates match grade pellets (any brand) to be statistically better (i.e. more precise) than the RWS Basic pellet?

I would really appreciate reading/checking that study, preferably from an independent source not 'linked' to the marketing department of the match grade pellet that is being tested.

Also, from my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong, the equipments (pistol/pellet combination) will only provide the precision part... Accuracy being more of a function of how good the shooter is. This Makes winning a match roughly a 50/50 ratio between accuracy and precision. What do you think?

Thanks
Fadi


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
It sounds as if many here are making the TOTALLY unwarranted assumption that by spending more money they will get more accurate results. But, if it makes them feel better.....


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:25 am 
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Fadi wrote:
Hi everyone
Just an education question for my own understanding if you don't mind:
Is there any scientific/unbiased experiment you could point me to that demonstrates match grade pellets (any brand) to be statistically better (i.e. more precise) than the RWS Basic pellet?

The answer to all your pellet questions:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51440

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Location: Luxembourg
rmca wrote:
Fadi wrote:
Hi everyone
Just an education question for my own understanding if you don't mind:
Is there any scientific/unbiased experiment you could point me to that demonstrates match grade pellets (any brand) to be statistically better (i.e. more precise) than the RWS Basic pellet?

The answer to all your pellet questions:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51440

Hope this helps


Thanks :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:57 pm
Posts: 534
Location: California
I use Vogel Sport, and buy them a sleeve at a time from Pilkington.
For me, at my level, Vogel Sport is good enough. I cannot out-shoot the pistol or the pellet. When I shoot a bad shot, I know it is me, not the pellet. Though I have not tried machine testing the AP.

If the price between training pellets and match pellets is close, as others said, I would just go to the match pellets.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:13 am
Posts: 206
Location: North London, Ohio
Greetings-

Pellets for air pistols are like horses for courses. One's best bet in the states is Champions Shooters:

http://www.championshooters.com/index.p ... Itemid=111

http://www.championshooters.com/index.p ... Itemid=111

We like Meisterkugeln because they are cheaper than R-10's, virtually the same with regard to manufacturing process, and cleaner than everything else. (Read- our hands do not turn black during shooting.)

http://www.championshooters.com/index.p ... Itemid=111

Cheers!
m1963


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:48 am
Posts: 168
Location: Hamilton Square NJ
People talk about finding bent skirts or other deformed pellets. Has anyone tried firing deliberately deformed pellets to see just how it will affect the target? About what effect it might have.? I've tried a set of ten slightly deformed skirts: no effect. I shot as well as ever , or as mediocre. :) Then a set of quite mashed skirts that were hard to chamber; they shot maybe one ring lower because of (my guess) a poor seal and less air pushing them out the barrel. Group size was similar, just lower.

Short answer, the tiny bit of deformation you might find in a tin is of little to no consequence. Sure, take them out when shooting a match. It will make you feel better. Try them at the next practice and my bet is that they will shoot just as well as a "perfect" pellet.

I've shot many a Meisterkugelen; I like Basics. They shoot the same. If I'm off by a tenth of a millimeter, it's me, not the pellet.

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in beautiful, gun friendly New Jersey


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1434
Location: Massachusetts
For matches, I really like the plastic shaker boxes that allow you to get 100 pellets all nicely organized base up. This makes them easy to load, and to keep count of your shots. With the pellets all uniformly base up, you can also scan over the box quickly to spot and remove any pellets with visibly deformed skirts.

Image

Our host sells them in the US, but they are pretty widely available.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Location: Hamilton Square NJ
Practice with the pellets you shoot in matches.

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in beautiful, gun friendly New Jersey


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Location: Luxembourg
Gwhite wrote:
For matches, I really like the plastic shaker boxes that allow you to get 100 pellets all nicely organized base up. This makes them easy to load, and to keep count of your shots. With the pellets all uniformly base up, you can also scan over the box quickly to spot and remove any pellets with visibly deformed skirts.

Image

Our host sells them in the US, but they are pretty widely available.



Agree :) I love those shacker boxes too!
It is crazy how it helps keep track of the count; I would have never thought!

Highly recommended :)

Cheers
F

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