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 Post subject: Pardini Conversion Units
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
Posts: 5263
Location: Ruislip, UK
Before I start, I have no link with Pardini.

It might have been common knowledge but I have just spotted that the factory are now producing guns with conversion units for .22LR Rapid Fire, .22LR Sport Pistol and .32S&WL as well as, for the US, .32ACP.

It only works with 2016 frames.

I had heard about it a few months ago but haven't seen the page on their web site before.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:07 pm
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Location: Prescott, AZ
I'm new to Olympic shooting, so please educate me about the differences among the bullseye, sport, and rapid fire versions of the Pardini. What features differentiate each from the others?

TIA,

Dennis in the PRK


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:18 pm 
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I haven't got a clue about Bullseye

The Sport and RFP versions have slightly different bolts and barrels (I believe it's slightly different chambering) and the RFP has Tungsten instead of steel weight rods.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:28 pm 
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This is what the Pardini website says:

Quote:
BULLSEYE FEATURES: Special bolt design ensures delayed blowback operation based on the heavier mass and deliver exceptional accuracy. Dovetail cuts support direct mount of scope rings to the frame. It can be converted to .32 ACP or .32 S&W with additional conversion kit in less than a minute, using only one screw! You will shoot with the same trigger, the same grip, and the same scope both .22 and .32 competitions!


In Bullseye, you have to shoot three guns: a rimfire (22lr), a centerfire (can be any centerfire cartridge), and a service pistol (1911, Barretta, etc.) Typically, most people will shoot two guns with red dot scope sights on them, generally a 1911 and a 22lr (the 1911 covers both the centerfire and service pistol categories). Pardini is trying to break into that market by reversing the trend so that you have a souped up 1911, and a souped up Pardini that fires a .22 and a centerfire cartridge, the .32acp. See http://www.bullseyepistol.com for much, much more information on the sport. Pardini knows that it is producing a solid .22, and wants to leverage that to break into the bullseye competition market here in the United States. It's certainly a different (and probably more expensive) way of looking at the sport. A bullseye Pardini is about $2400 without a red dot, and a good 1911 is probably one of the most expensive pistols in the industry that isn't a curio/relic.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Posts: 485
Location: MInnesota
Chia wrote:
This is what the Pardini website says:

Quote:
BULLSEYE FEATURES: Special bolt design ensures delayed blowback operation based on the heavier mass and deliver exceptional accuracy. Dovetail cuts support direct mount of scope rings to the frame. It can be converted to .32 ACP or .32 S&W with additional conversion kit in less than a minute, using only one screw! You will shoot with the same trigger, the same grip, and the same scope both .22 and .32 competitions!


In Bullseye, you have to shoot three guns: a rimfire (22lr), a centerfire (can be any centerfire cartridge), and a service pistol (1911, Barretta, etc.)


Just to clarify:
The 3 guns are .22 rimfire, Center fire (any center fire from .32 to .45acp) and .45acp - not service pistol, you can't shoot a Beretta 9MM in the .45 class. Most competitors shoot their .45acp in the center fire match and most .45's are based on the 1911 platform.

- Dave

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:33 pm 
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Location: Prescott, AZ
David Levene wrote:
I haven't got a clue about Bullseye

The Sport and RFP versions have slightly different bolts and barrels (I believe it's slightly different chambering) and the RFP has Tungsten instead of steel weight rods.


Thanks!! I am a bullseye shooter and use the S&W 41 and a Colt 1911 in .45 ACP, so I'm familiar with that sport. I THOUGHT that both Sport and RFP use the .22 Long Rifle cartridge, but not sure on that. Are the slight differences you quote above something that the average shooter would notice, or are these nuances appreciated only by the elite tier of competitors shooting in the Olympics and ISSF World shoots?

Dennis


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
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Location: Massachusetts
dulcmr-man wrote:
Thanks!! I am a bullseye shooter and use the S&W 41 and a Colt 1911 in .45 ACP, so I'm familiar with that sport. I THOUGHT that both Sport and RFP use the .22 Long Rifle cartridge, but not sure on that. Are the slight differences you quote above something that the average shooter would notice, or are these nuances appreciated only by the elite tier of competitors shooting in the Olympics and ISSF World shoots?

Dennis

Standard Pistol, Sport Pistol, and Rapid Fire all shoot .22LR.

I'm not an expert on rapid fire, so I'm not quite sure what tweaks they have made & why. I believe they are willing to sacrifice a bit of accuracy for fast cycling with minimal recoil & quick recovery. A 4 second rapid fire series is WAY faster than any other pistol discipline, especially because you have to start from the "ready position" with the arm below a 45 degree angle.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:38 am 
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Rapid fire pistol has a minimum velocity of 250 meters per second and a minimum bullet weight of 38gr.
Most cartridges are around 330 meters per second and 40gr.

The main diference between the standard and rapid fire versions is the bolt weight.
The rapid fire is lighter, recoils faster and is designed for low power cartridges. The "ears" of the bolt are thinner.
The standard one is designed to work with "normal" .22s
The bullseye is the same as the standard but has dovetails cut for scopes.

Don't know if there is any diference in the barrel twist or the weights.

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:45 am 
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Location: Haymarket, VA
I had the bullseye 22lr pardini. Was told the bolt was heavier than the standard for increased 50yard accuracy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 438
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings,

There is a difference in the Pardini Standard and Rapid Fire pistol barrels. They have different part numbers.

Yes, the Rapid Fire bolt is lighter than the Standard Pistol bolt.

It is nice that you can convert from Standard Pistol to Rapid Fire pistol using the same frame/grip assembly.

Cheers,

Dave


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:56 pm
Posts: 485
Location: MInnesota
Christopher Miceli wrote:
I had the bullseye 22lr pardini. Was told the bolt was heavier than the standard for increased 50yard accuracy


When I was considering the Pardini I was told the same thing.

- Dave

_________________
Certified Safety Instructor: Rifle & Pistol
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Ben Franklin


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:07 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Prescott, AZ
This thread illustrates what is best about Pilkguns and TargetTalk. The answers provided by Gwhite, rmca, and others have made it clear to me what differentiates the various flavors of Pardini rimfire offerings, and more importantly, WHY the differences are important.

Thanks a million, to all who replied.

Dennis in the PRK


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Québec, Canada
rmca wrote:
Rapid fire pistol has a minimum velocity of 250 meters per second and a minimum bullet weight of 38gr.
Most cartridges are around 330 meters per second and 40gr.

The main difference between the standard and rapid fire versions is the bolt weight.
The rapid fire is lighter, recoils faster and is designed for low power cartridges. The "ears" of the bolt are thinner.
The standard one is designed to work with "normal" .22s
The bullseye is the same as the standard but has dovetails cut for scopes.

Don't know if there is any diference in the barrel twist or the weights.

Hope this helps


Superb answer. Wouldn't it be nice if manufacturers made the differences easy to identify.
So, what differences would a shooter experience if shooting a standard pistol event or firing with "normal" .22s with a rapid fire gun?

The next question is what are the other differences?
besides a dovetail for the bullseye between bullseye and the other two?
besides the bolt between standard and rapid fire?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Location: Massachusetts
I suspect if you shoot normal .22LR rounds in the rapid fire version, you will beat it to death faster. Not a good thing to do with a > $2K pistol.

The recoil will also probably be sharper feeling.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:02 am
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SK pistol match has v0 of 281m/s, lapua pistol king has v0 of 270m/s and lapua OSP has v0 of 265m/s (120mm barrel length). I believe this same ammunition would have v0 of 310-330m/s if fired from 660mm barrel.
I doubt any standard velocity ammunition would reach 330m/s from pistol, or has anyone measurements which indicate something different?
Also the OSP ammunition does not appear to have that much lower velocity.

Eley lists their OSP ammunition v0 to be 331m/s which is the same as tenex rifle has, both most likely tested from long rifle barrel.

Conclusion is that there does not appear to exist rapid fire ammunition with considerably lower velocity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:02 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
J R wrote:
SK pistol match has v0 of 281m/s, lapua pistol king has v0 of 270m/s and lapua OSP has v0 of 265m/s (120mm barrel length). I believe this same ammunition would have v0 of 310-330m/s if fired from 660mm barrel.
I doubt any standard velocity ammunition would reach 330m/s from pistol, or has anyone measurements which indicate something different?
Also the OSP ammunition does not appear to have that much lower velocity.

Eley lists their OSP ammunition v0 to be 331m/s which is the same as tenex rifle has, both most likely tested from long rifle barrel.

Conclusion is that there does not appear to exist rapid fire ammunition with considerably lower velocity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


I got the random ammo test at a RF competition and my Lapua Pistol King clocked at 256-257m/s (yes, 3 shots within 1m/s). This was from a Pardini SP-RF.

You are correct, most if not all manufacturers quoted velocities are from rifle length test barrels unless stated otherwise.

My question regarding the convertible Pardini, is how is the RF bolt guided in the housing that also takes the CF and Bullseye .22 bolt? The dedicated RF pistol has a cross pin that guides the top rear portion of the bolt but this isn't there in the CF or bullseye frame? What guides the top rear of the RF bolt in a conversion frame?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:39 am 
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Location: Norway
Gwhite wrote:
I suspect if you shoot normal .22LR rounds in the rapid fire version, you will beat it to death faster. Not a good thing to do with a > $2K pistol.

The recoil will also probably be sharper feeling.

If you replace the recoil spring and buffer regularly, it should live a long and prosperous life.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:06 am 
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal
J R wrote:
SK pistol match has v0 of 281m/s, lapua pistol king has v0 of 270m/s and lapua OSP has v0 of 265m/s (120mm barrel length). I believe this same ammunition would have v0 of 310-330m/s if fired from 660mm barrel.
I doubt any standard velocity ammunition would reach 330m/s from pistol, or has anyone measurements which indicate something different?
Also the OSP ammunition does not appear to have that much lower velocity.

Eley lists their OSP ammunition v0 to be 331m/s which is the same as tenex rifle has, both most likely tested from long rifle barrel.

Conclusion is that there does not appear to exist rapid fire ammunition with considerably lower velocity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

J.R.

You are correct when you say that the 330m/s is the velocity measured from a long barrel.
However, like J-team said, there is ammo that is around the 250 m/s mark shot from a pistol. Lapua Pistol King or RWS Super Pistol 250 (although I can't find it on their site) are two exemples.

Gwhite

I don't think that with normal ammo you would beat the pistol (RF version) to death. What you will have to do is replace the plastic or rubber buffer more often.
That's the part where the bolt comes to rest at the end of it's travel. You should replace it anyway from time to time and it's a cheap part.

J.Team

I don't think that there are any differences in the frames of the various calibers, since the only parts you change is the barrel, bolt and recoil spring.
The bolt for the center fire should ride in the same pins as the other calibers.

Hope this helps


Last edited by rmca on Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:18 am 
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Here is the link for ammo testing standards SAAMI for rimfire ammo.
It uses a 24 inch test barrel.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and ... 1-2015.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:32 am 
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Location: Rhode Island, USA
J R wrote:
SK pistol match has v0 of 281m/s, lapua pistol king has v0 of 270m/s and lapua OSP has v0 of 265m/s (120mm barrel length). I believe this same ammunition would have v0 of 310-330m/s if fired from 660mm barrel.
I doubt any standard velocity ammunition would reach 330m/s from pistol, or has anyone measurements which indicate something different?
Also the OSP ammunition does not appear to have that much lower velocity.

Eley lists their OSP ammunition v0 to be 331m/s which is the same as tenex rifle has, both most likely tested from long rifle barrel.

Conclusion is that there does not appear to exist rapid fire ammunition with considerably lower velocity. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


I don't know if the CIP system has more than one method of measuring pressure and velocity for .22 rimfire ammunition. SAAMI has one standard, so there isn't a reliable method of comparing velocity from various pistols, because there isn't a standard method for comparison.


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