TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:45 am 
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
Very true! I recommend you don't keep your pellets in your mouth, but I don't think you'll have a problem otherwise.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:15 am 
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yeah, throw them away, the lead oxide is harder than lead and could scratch your bore.

New pellets usually look shiny.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:11 am 
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
hundert wrote:
yeah, throw them away, the lead oxide is harder than lead and could scratch your bore.


I don't believe that, but supposing for a second that they do, think of the accuracy improvement from the "firelapping."


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:27 pm
Posts: 10
Location: North Devon UK
I know it's probably not doing me any favours but I have a .22 lead pellet (probably wasp if I was to hazard a guess) buried deep in my ankle. It's been there for 31 years now since someone shot me when I was 13. I found out the pellet was there after having an X-ray taken when I was 18 for a suspected broken ankle. The Doctors said it was best to leave it as it wasn't and hadn't caused me any trouble.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Posts: 228
dude, it's lead, have it removed, but I'm not a doctor... still it's lead


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:35 pm
Posts: 13
rmca wrote:
Yes I know, pellet testing for pistol is a waste of time...
But since I've given in and done it, here's my results for you to comment.
These are all ten shots groups, from my Steyr LP10 clamped in a vice.

First to establish a base line, I shot the RWS R10 Pistol, 7gr 4.49
Attachment:
RWS R10.JPG

Needless to say these gave me the smallest result of the four I´ve tested, although they cost about 10-11€ a tin around here!
The group is pretty similar to the H&N Finale Match Pistol 7.56gr 4.49 I´ve tested two years ago.

Second came the H&N Excite. These are entry level pellets, in 4.5 and didn't specify the weight (my guess is around 8gr)
Attachment:
HN Excite.JPG

I was not excited about these ones ;)
I had pretty good experiences with top level H&N pellets in the past, so I had high hopes for these...
At least it gave me an excuse for all the shots I couldn't call properly (yeah, right, it's the pellets fault!)

Third in line was the RWS Club (orange tin)
Attachment:
RWS Club.JPG

Better than the H&N Excite, but nothing to be proud of...

Finally came the RWS Diabolo Basic (green tin), in 4.5 and 7gr
Attachment:
RWS Diabolo Basic.JPG

I've tested these a few times, just to be sure. I was getting afraid my gun had developed a taste for the finer pellets in live...
Huge relieve!
I know the group size is larger than the R10, but they cost about 1/3 so I can´t complain!

So, is this worth doing?
In my book, yes. But once every couple of years.
It gives you trust in your equipment and get's it out of your mind.
Also gives you a mental boost every time you use the pellets that performed better.

What is your opinion?



I test pellets everytime I am in competition in Germany so about 1-2 times per year. Now, I know I am an extreme since I am on the pistol team, but I find that the more you start testing pellets the more you give yourself an "out" for the problems. I personally only test to find a match lot for the coming competitions and then in training I use whatever I have laying around...my K12 shoots RWS R10 rifle 4.49 the best and I get great groups everytime. Well within the 10 ring. My match lot that I use is within the x ring.

However, recently I have decided to try something...I noticed my pistol likes a match lot for about 6-7 months. Then it starts opening up.. So i just got a batch from RWS that I will exclusively use for the coming months. I will set 2-3 times aside for big matches but everything else will be using the match lot. This way I can see whether the match lot changes as a result of the use of different pellet brands/sizes or if its just through use.

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USA Shooting Team


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Location: Maine
I was so impressed by Rover's pronouncements that I just ordered four tins of the green lid Basics. Can't wait ! The sleeve of Vogel Orange is just about gone, been shooting my R10s in practice, which seems profligate. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:48 am
Posts: 128
Location: Hamilton Square NJ
hundert wrote:
yeah, throw them away, the lead oxide is harder than lead and could scratch your bore.


Sorry. Lead oxide is actually softer then lead metal. They most definitely won't scratch your bore.

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in beautiful, gun friendly New Jersey


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 356
Location: A new global Great Britain
Not something you want inside the gun or sprayed into the range atmosphere. If the oxide is loose powder they need disposing of IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:14 pm
Posts: 174
AlexFromPardini wrote:

I test pellets everytime I am in competition in Germany so about 1-2 times per year. Now, I know I am an extreme since I am on the pistol team, but I find that the more you start testing pellets the more you give yourself an "out" for the problems. I personally only test to find a match lot for the coming competitions and then in training I use whatever I have laying around...my K12 shoots RWS R10 rifle 4.49 the best and I get great groups everytime. Well within the 10 ring. My match lot that I use is within the x ring.

However, recently I have decided to try something...I noticed my pistol likes a match lot for about 6-7 months. Then it starts opening up.. So i just got a batch from RWS that I will exclusively use for the coming months. I will set 2-3 times aside for big matches but everything else will be using the match lot. This way I can see whether the match lot changes as a result of the use of different pellet brands/sizes or if its just through use.


Might be extreme, but perhaps a single lot of pellets but store them in a container of nitrogen gas to eliminate oxidation? Certainly nothing that would matter to anyone normal, but it would arrest the lead changing from oxidation.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:13 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Dallas, Texas
Bootneckbob:
Get a second opinion. Unless it's encapsulated (and maybe even then) that pellet is oxidizing away and leaching lead ions into your "precious bodily fluids". Toxic stuff. Nerve damage, kidney damage.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:48 am
Posts: 427
Location: Aotearoa/NZ
For those concerned about lead there are lead-free options from H&N and RWS. No idea if they shoot any good.

RWS:
https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-sportsho ... #!12/984/0

H&N:
https://www.hn-sport.de/en/target-shoot ... -green-177

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:51 am
Posts: 56
Location: czech republic
Reducing the weight of the shot always gets worse accuracy. Physics can not be circumvented.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:54 am 
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Posts: 356
Location: A new global Great Britain
pbrejsa wrote:
Reducing the weight of the shot always gets worse accuracy. Physics can not be circumvented.

On that theory increasing the weight would always improve accuracy which is blatantly false. Each gun/shooter will have an optimum pellet weight probably on a bell curve.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Costa Rica, Central America
pbrejsa wrote:
Reducing the weight of the shot always gets worse accuracy. Physics can not be circumvented.


Both RWS and H&N have decades of expertise in producing high quality pellets. I have no doubt that their new light weight "lead free" pellets can be just as accurate, depending on the gun and the optimum velocity selected for that particular pellet.

Accuracy suffers at longer distances, within ten meters the difference is negligible.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:25 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 356
Location: A new global Great Britain
All the major control groups in EU and USA have accepted that lead is the best material for ammunition and no restrictions will be brought in. Hopefully the green ammo will die a suitable death.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:03 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1302
Location: Massachusetts
kevinweiho wrote:
pbrejsa wrote:
Reducing the weight of the shot always gets worse accuracy. Physics can not be circumvented.


Both RWS and H&N have decades of expertise in producing high quality pellets. I have no doubt that their new light weight "lead free" pellets can be just as accurate, depending on the gun and the optimum velocity selected for that particular pellet.

Accuracy suffers at longer distances, within ten meters the difference is negligible.

I'm pretty sure someone has posted a test of some of the "green" pellets, but that was a while ago. My recollection was that they are not adequate for serious competition. I did a quick search, but came up empty. Maybe someone else will have better search luck, or can remember who posted the tests.

There are "accuracy" tests from other places posted on-line, but they are all garbage (hand held, usually with non-match pistols and people getting excited about 1/2" groups). The only vaguely serious test was with a Morini, but fired in the hand on top of a rest:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2016/03/morini-162mi-10-meter-match-pistol-part-3/

His results are hardly conclusive, but the lead-free pellets weren't as awful as the earlier results I've seen. The author made the same comment, that they were much better than previous "green" pellets he'd tried.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
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Location: A new global Great Britain
I would imagine solid Tin alloy pellets would be ok but the die cast headed plastic ones I tried just stripped strings of plastic on the rifling and hung out of the barrel.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:36 am 
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Posts: 903
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Have a look at what RWS says about their premium lead free pellets:

https://rws-munition.de/en/rws-sportsho ... html?cn=DE

"Outstanding accuracy for a lightweight tin pellet Shot groups of 7 mm are entirely possible "

7mm is what I got with pellets than cost a third of those... and made by RWS also!
The "entirely possible" part doesn't fill me with confidence either...


Last edited by rmca on Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
Posts: 598
Location: Costa Rica, Central America
rmca wrote:
Have a look at what RWS says about their premium lead free pellets:"Outstanding accuracy for a lightweight tin pellet Shot groups of 7 mm are entirely possible " The "entirely possible" part doesn't fill me with confidence either...


The selling point of “green pellets” is that they are safe to handle and are eco friendly, there are no other advantages.

The niche they created came from people that fear lead contamination or poisoning. I am no green pellet advocate, unless if they were selling at prices that are similar to lead pellets.

If they would have changed the statement and said that a 7 mm c-t-c group can be achieved on a rest, will that have sold you? LOL


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