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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
That model 18 .32 is sold already. Don´t know why they have not removed the ad from their website..

I found an ad selling used Toz 96 revolver. Called that shop this morning, but gun was already sold.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
David M wrote:
The only true .32sw is the old model 14 K32 masterpiece, now rare and expensive. The model 16 is .32 mag and was never very sussesful as a ISSF target gun with ligh loads.


Just visited the store that has two 16-2 revolvers. Both have marking 32 S&w long in their barrel.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:04 am
Posts: 521
Location: Sydney, Australia
Buy the best one..

I can't believe that a store in Finland had a TOZ 96 for sale. Not only have i never seen one for sale, I've never even seen a picture of one. The rarrest of the TOZ CF revolvers - I believe only 8 were ever made in .32 S&W L..


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
Those 16-2's are pretty worn.. This one had really nice trigger: http://www.aseliikerantanen.fi/fi/Käytetyt+aseet/Käsiaseet/34/Smith++Wesson+16-2/1451

..but also lots of rotational freeplay in the cylinder.

I think the 14-2 seen in those dropbox pictures is the best one so far.

I had never seen a Toz- revolver until two weeks ago when we had our national championship competition. One guy there shot with a Toz. Then I thought it was 36 or 49 modified to shoot 32s&w, but it is possible that it was the 96 model.

Just called the owner of the gun shop that imported Toz guns years ago.
Apparently two Toz revolvers in .32S&W long were imported in Finland. Man knows current owners of both revolvers. One is definately not for sale, other.. maybe. I try to arrange a photo or two of the 96. I´ll post them here if I get them.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:04 am
Posts: 521
Location: Sydney, Australia
Small world - would you believe I looked at those about a year go with the view of importing one into Australia?

I actually like this one better - http://www.aseliikerantanen.fi/fi/K%C3% ... +16-2/1452

If it was mine I would have it re-blued so it looks like new again.

But I agree with you, the `14-2 is the best one and that's the one I would buy - if I couldn't get a TOZ 96...


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 Post subject: K14
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:43 am
Posts: 180
Mine will shoot under 2 inch groups from 50 yards.

Karl nil makes nice grips for k frames

158 grain wc is most accurate load with 2.7 bullseye, 2.6 VN 310, or 2.7 wst.

158 grain swc work nice as well.

A good gunsmith can get the trigger down to 1kg.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Massachusetts
A K32 showed up this morning on GunBroker.com. The price was up to $750. It's now up to $2175...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=441429210


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
Luckily I'm not a collector..

Bought the 14-2 seen in those pictures a couple of weeks ago.
S&W factory said this revolver was made in 1964, so it is oldest gun I have.

Someone had already cut the coil spring a bit to get to that 1,5kg sa trigger pull.
So I cut some more and now it is approx. 1,1kg. Good enough for now.
I have made a quick grip template to file and fill. Plan is to get it close and then copy-route the shape to walnut to make nicer grip.

Bought some 105 gr swc bullets to test that light loading.
Any suggestions on 38 loads with N310 powder and 105gr swc bullet?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:37 am
Posts: 86
Location: Florida
JiriK wrote:
Luckily I'm not a collector..

Bought some 105 gr swc bullets to test that light loading.
Any suggestions on 38 loads with N310 powder and 105gr swc bullet?



N310 is not the best powder for 38 Special with a 105 grain bullet.

The problem is that with the 105 grain bullet the interior case volume is about 1.24 cc for a 38 Special case.
With charges of about 4 grains of powder ( which is typical for target velocities) only 37 % of the case has powder in it.
This means that with a 63 % empty case and a fast burning powder, you may get erratic velocities due to flash over.
I define flash over as when the primer sometimes ignites the top of all the powder in a partially filled case all at once, creating dangerous pressures as indicated by flattened primers. This has been noted when the powder fills less than 50% of a case and is more dangerous in high power rifles where pressures are around 50,000 cup (copper units of pressure - similar to but not exactly the same as pounds per square inch).
With the 38 Special usually loaded at 18,000 psi and a S & W revolver of similar design chambered in .357 Magnum able to handle 35,000 psi, this is only a moderate concern, not a blaring safety violation.

If you want to use VV powders, then I suggest Tin Star (N32C) as a much better choice. I do not believe that VV has published reloading data for a 105 grain bullet. Contact customer service at VV and they might be able to help.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4918
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Try Magnum primers, too,


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
RJP, I have tested the 105gr loads where tip of bullet is pushed 3mm below edge of the shell. Magtech factory WC loads had better accuracy than those test loads but with a lot harder recoil. Those 105gr bullets were cast for airgun use (soft lead) and sized to .357. No lube on test load bullets either.. Will try again when I get the mould. Should arrive tomorrow.

I visited a gun store in a nearby town this monday. Bought an old but unused Lyman 2660091 mould (double 148gr 358091 cavities)

Any loading values for those Lyman bullets with N310?

Rover - thanks, will try some day. I have hundreds of Sellier & Bellot small pistol primers so I´ll start with them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:15 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
My clubmate has a Manurhin 32 revolver with 2-stage trigger. Don´t know who added the first stage to that trigger, but it was not by factory.
I tested that revolver last summer and liked the trigger, so I started planning a modification to my 14-2.

I didn´t dare to try this with the original trigger, so bought another one - just in case mod does not work.

Dremeling, filing, silver soldering and drilling. Ready for test.
I need to find a stronger spring and -maybe- make less curved trigger blade.


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14-2_trigger.jpg
14-2_trigger.jpg [ 249.45 KiB | Viewed 856 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 232
Location: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada
Intriguing and very neat job. Congratulations it is much neater than the one I saw pictures of that was done in Oz. It had a spring tube run through the frame and a similar swinging trigger. We'll be interested in how it works out.

Dr Jim


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 581
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
JiriK wrote:
S&W 14-2 vs Colt Officers model match .38
How do those compare?

Quality is near the same but the fit of each gun is quite different in a persons hands. For me, it is quite difficult to shoot a Colt Officers model one handed in anything but slow fire. If you don't shoot multiple shots it won't matter. My problem is that it seems like the hammer is in the wrong place for my thumb on the Colt and difficult to cock. My 14-2 will hit my knuckle on the trigger guard unless I use Pachmeyer grips and I would rather use the original target grips. Personal preference is what it comes to.

As far as accuracy is concerned, it depends on which individual pistol we are talking about instead of which particular brand. Either should be capable of around 2 inches accuracy 10 shots at 50 yards if shot in a Ransom Rest. It seems that my Smith is more particular and the Colt shoots most anything well but again, I expect it is the individual guns not the brand. I would call them a draw and pick which ever one feels the best in your hand or looks to be in the best condition.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 327
JiriK wrote:
RJP, I have tested the 105gr loads where tip of bullet is pushed 3mm below edge of the shell. Magtech factory WC loads had better accuracy than those test loads but with a lot harder recoil. Those 105gr bullets were cast for airgun use (soft lead) and sized to .357. No lube on test load bullets either.. Will try again when I get the mould. Should arrive tomorrow.

I visited a gun store in a nearby town this monday. Bought an old but unused Lyman 2660091 mould (double 148gr 358091 cavities)

Any loading values for those Lyman bullets with N310?

Rover - thanks, will try some day. I have hundreds of Sellier & Bellot small pistol primers so I´ll start with them.



Hi, JiriK!

Last weekend I bought beautiful 14-3 from 1969. Now I make match grip for it.

Have you found your perfect match load?

I use since many years Lovex D032 for my .38 competition loads for 686 Target Champ (bullets brand LOS 158gr FP). I love it.
Just curious if I can use my favorite powder in the future also for lead WC bullets for issf center fire.


Attachments:
20170723_205915.jpg
20170723_205915.jpg [ 170.9 KiB | Viewed 223 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Turku, Finland
Hi ruig!

My best groups were 2.8grains of N320 with .358 bullet cast with that Lyman mould. Groups could be better, but usable for now.
Haven´t shot with the S&W much lately.. I was bitten by the blackpowder bug some time ago :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:59 am
Posts: 521
JiriK wrote:
.. I was bitten by the blackpowder bug some time ago :)

I keep telling people those cartridge things are only a passing fad.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Southern New England
JiriK wrote:
My clubmate has a Manurhin 32 revolver with 2-stage trigger. Don´t know who added the first stage to that trigger, but it was not by factory.
I tested that revolver last summer and liked the trigger, so I started planning a modification to my 14-2.

I didn´t dare to try this with the original trigger, so bought another one - just in case mod does not work.

Dremeling, filing, silver soldering and drilling. Ready for test.
I need to find a stronger spring and -maybe- make less curved trigger blade.



Are those grips Nil's or some other brand? My 14 needs a new handle and I'm on the fence between Nil and Fung grips


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:16 pm
Posts: 330
Location: Santa Fe, Argentina
Jon Math wrote:
JiriK wrote:
My clubmate has a Manurhin 32 revolver with 2-stage trigger. Don´t know who added the first stage to that trigger, but it was not by factory.
I tested that revolver last summer and liked the trigger, so I started planning a modification to my 14-2.

I didn´t dare to try this with the original trigger, so bought another one - just in case mod does not work.

Dremeling, filing, silver soldering and drilling. Ready for test.
I need to find a stronger spring and -maybe- make less curved trigger blade.



Are those grips Nil's or some other brand? My 14 needs a new handle and I'm on the fence between Nil and Fung grips


I have a set of Karl Nill's grip in my target S & W, but they only make them for ROUND BUTT FRAMES, which fortunately mine is.

Maybe you should ask Nill if they can carve them for square butts, or maybe go for it as is and file your frame...........................


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 89
Location: Southern New England
renzo wrote:
Jon Math wrote:
JiriK wrote:
My clubmate has a Manurhin 32 revolver with 2-stage trigger. Don´t know who added the first stage to that trigger, but it was not by factory.
I tested that revolver last summer and liked the trigger, so I started planning a modification to my 14-2.

I didn´t dare to try this with the original trigger, so bought another one - just in case mod does not work.

Dremeling, filing, silver soldering and drilling. Ready for test.
I need to find a stronger spring and -maybe- make less curved trigger blade.



Are those grips Nil's or some other brand? My 14 needs a new handle and I'm on the fence between Nil and Fung grips


I have a set of Karl Nill's grip in my target S & W, but they only make them for ROUND BUTT FRAMES, which fortunately mine is.

Maybe you should ask Nill if they can carve them for square butts, or maybe go for it as is and file your frame...........................

Nill catalogs grips for S&W with square or round butt frames but they only show a left side profile picture of them. I was trying to figure out what the thumb shelf looks like and how big the horn is. I’d be shooting the pistol mainly in Bulls eye shooting events and I’m not sure I could thumb the hammer with a Nill ISSF grip.


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