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 Post subject: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
From what I have read this is a very popular and fast growing shooting sport in Germany. I understand England is also working out rules and standards for it now. As a member of the older generation I’d really enjoy an event that I could be competitive in once again. Is this being shot anywhere in the US now, or are their plans for it in the near future?

Thanks

Jon


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Location: Maine
Jon Math wrote:
From what I have read this is a very popular and fast growing shooting sport in Germany. I understand England is also working out rules and standards for it now. As a member of the older generation I’d really enjoy an event that I could be competitive in once again. Is this being shot anywhere in the US now, or are their plans for it in the near future?

Thanks

Jon

What is the nature of the support, and what distance are they shooting?


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
Ed333 wrote:
Jon Math wrote:
From what I have read this is a very popular and fast growing shooting sport in Germany. I understand England is also working out rules and standards for it now. As a member of the older generation I’d really enjoy an event that I could be competitive in once again. Is this being shot anywhere in the US now, or are their plans for it in the near future?

Thanks

Jon

What is the nature of the support, and what distance are they shooting?

The Germans have three classes based on age. Shooters from 50 to 72 are split into two groups and shoot standing, over 72 they can sit on a stool. All shooting is from the standard AP range of 10 meters. The support is a stand similar to an air rifle stand. It is topped with a round tube arraigned horizontal to the ground onto which the shooter rests just the base of the pistol’s grip on. Rink sells a modified grip with a wedge on the base of the grip to keep the bore of the pistol level when it’s on the rest tube. The point of contact is pretty small.
As I understand it the rest takes the weight of the pistol, but sighting, breath control, trigger release etc is basically unchanged for normal shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Location: Maine
Jon Math wrote:
Ed333 wrote:
Jon Math wrote:
From what I have read this is a very popular and fast growing shooting sport in Germany. I understand England is also working out rules and standards for it now. As a member of the older generation I’d really enjoy an event that I could be competitive in once again. Is this being shot anywhere in the US now, or are their plans for it in the near future?

Thanks

Jon

What is the nature of the support, and what distance are they shooting?

The Germans have three classes based on age. Shooters from 50 to 72 are split into two groups and shoot standing, over 72 they can sit on a stool. All shooting is from the standard AP range of 10 meters. The support is a stand similar to an air rifle stand. It is topped with a round tube arraigned horizontal to the ground onto which the shooter rests just the base of the pistol’s grip on. Rink sells a modified grip with a wedge on the base of the grip to keep the bore of the pistol level when it’s on the rest tube. The point of contact is pretty small.
As I understand it the rest takes the weight of the pistol, but sighting, breath control, trigger release etc is basically unchanged for normal shooting.

What I could really go for at 77 is benchrest air rifle; my old FWB 602 SPP takes it out of me. Pistol, not really.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Southern New England
What is the nature of the support, and what distance are they shooting?[/quote]
The Germans have three classes based on age. Shooters from 50 to 72 are split into two groups and shoot standing, over 72 they can sit on a stool. All shooting is from the standard AP range of 10 meters. The support is a stand similar to an air rifle stand. It is topped with a round tube arraigned horizontal to the ground onto which the shooter rests just the base of the pistol’s grip on. Rink sells a modified grip with a wedge on the base of the grip to keep the bore of the pistol level when it’s on the rest tube. The point of contact is pretty small.
As I understand it the rest takes the weight of the pistol, but sighting, breath control, trigger release etc is basically unchanged for normal shooting.[/quote]
What I could really go for at 77 is benchrest air rifle; my old FWB 602 SPP takes it out of me. Pistol, not really.[/quote]
I believe the supported AP was derived from the older supported air rifle sport, again in Germany. The PPC style guns are easier than cranking on the charging lever of a SSP for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... n_2016.pdf

Some more info with photos of rests for both rifle and pistol events.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:20 am
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Location: Maine
Jon Math wrote:
http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx?mod=docf&pane=1&inst=290&file=ISSF_Rules_-_Supported_Rest_Shooting_-_Edition_2016.pdf

Some more info with photos of rests for both rifle and pistol events.

Thanks for that info, my club is building an indoor 10M airgun range addition to the clubhouse, I will bring this to their attention. Basically, with either pistol or rifle, it is the weight of the gun which is supported, no other support. With rifle, I would be interested in true benchrest shooting, and I could see making the targets smaller. Or maybe shoot the standard 10m air rifle target at 50 feet, or 50 meters. There are local indoor ranges for rimfire competition at 50 feet, for 50 meters I would think have to go outside. Unless we could find a big barn or warehouse building. :)
I may cook something up just for informal intra-club competition.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm
Posts: 252
called " Auflageschiessen " in German. For air pistol search for " Auflageschiessen Luftpistole "


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Does anyone know if USA Shooting has heard of this ISSF game, or if it has already adopted it in some way? Considering it?


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 1142
Location: New Zealand
DFWdude wrote:
Does anyone know if USA Shooting has heard of this ISSF game, or if it has already adopted it in some way? Considering it?



it's not an ISSF "game". just another one of those events made up by people who can't win the normal way!


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:04 pm
Posts: 1331
Location: Massachusetts
USA Shooting has a junior program called "Progressive Position Air Pistol". They use a counter weight system so that there is no added stability provided by the rest. It only provides vertical lift to help with the weight of the pistol There is no reason why it couldn't be adapted to old timers:

Image

Instructions for making the counterweight systems are here:

Original "Tee" stand: http://www.usashooting.org/library/Youth_Development/Z_PPP_Counterbalance_T_Stand.pdf

Improved "L" stand: http://www.usashooting.org/library/Youth_Development/PPP/PPP_L-stand_construction_plans_2.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:10 pm
Posts: 168
j-team wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
Does anyone know if USA Shooting has heard of this ISSF game, or if it has already adopted it in some way? Considering it?



it's not an ISSF "game". just another one of those events made up by people who can't win the normal way!
Perhaps you might want to open the pdf file that Jon Math posted to learn that this is -- indeed -- an ISSF sanctioned game for shooters 56 and older.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:20 am
Posts: 26
Location: Maine
I am remembering that the evolution of F Class shooting within High Power rifle competition had a somewhat similar history. F Class is named for a Mr. Farqhuarson (sp?) , in Canada, who was suffering the slings and arrows of advancing age, and was no longer able to assume and hold some of the firing positions called for by across the course high power rules, but he wanted to keep shooting. He suggested and successfully lobbied for a modified event, prone, scopes, front rest, rear bags,...sometimes called 'benchrest on your belly'....this has resulted in the development of some pretty amazing accuracy at mid and long range F class rifle matches.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:48 am
Posts: 1142
Location: New Zealand
j-team wrote:
DFWdude wrote:
Does anyone know if USA Shooting has heard of this ISSF game, or if it has already adopted it in some way? Considering it?



it's not an ISSF "game". just another one of those events made up by people who can't win the normal way!


Well,well, didn't see that. I still don't think that they are really serious about it.

By the way, the guy at the bottom of page 3 is so good he can shoot a rifle with no sights!


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
hundert wrote:
called " Auflageschiessen " in German. For air pistol search for " Auflageschiessen Luftpistole "

Thank you, very much!


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:10 pm
Posts: 168
Several pistol grip rest options at this page. http://www.schiesssport-buinger.de/shoo ... air-pistol

Insane prices, as usual.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Southern New England
DFWdude wrote:
Several pistol grip rest options at this page. http://www.schiesssport-buinger.de/shoo ... air-pistol

Insane prices, as usual.


Thanks!

I did a search using the German words for the event posted earlier in the thread and was very surprised to see the amount of equipment that is being offered, especially the different stands and rests. None of it is inexpensive, and in spite of the costs by all accounts it is a very fast growing type of shooting. As an older person I’d really like to see this flourish outside of Germany.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
Posts: 46
Location: Southern New England
Gwhite wrote:
USA Shooting has a junior program called "Progressive Position Air Pistol". They use a counter weight system so that there is no added stability provided by the rest. It only provides vertical lift to help with the weight of the pistol There is no reason why it couldn't be adapted to old timers:

Image

Instructions for making the counterweight systems are here:

Original "Tee" stand: http://www.usashooting.org/library/Youth_Development/Z_PPP_Counterbalance_T_Stand.pdf

Improved "L" stand: http://www.usashooting.org/library/Youth_Development/PPP/PPP_L-stand_construction_plans_2.pdf

I agree it could be used just as easily by an older or handicapped shooter. I would prefer to see USA shooting adopt the same standard the rest of the world does however (if they do anything) ; it would be nice to know how your scores stand up Worldwide on an equal footing-or support as it were.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:10 pm
Posts: 168
I have written to USA Shooting about this ISSF program. I emphasized that this program for seniors would be a great complement to the existing "Progressive Position Air Pistol" program for juniors. If I get an answer, I will report back.

But it doesn't prevent others (YOU) making their desires known as well. The more people who ask, the better our chances to ilicit a response. Just log onto the USA Shooting site and click on the "Contact Us" tab and leave your thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Supported Air Pistol
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:46 pm
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Location: Southern New England
Thank you I will do that.


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