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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:44 pm 
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As some may know, here in the US the CMP has already formalized rule changes that they expect to come down from on high at ISSF.
I emailed Gary Anderson and he put together a summary of what he expects.

<<<excerpts from his email first>
Quote:
The ISSF Rule changes that were incorporated into the new 3-P Air Rifle Rules were all officially approved by the ISSF Administrative Council when it met in Moscow on 30 June. We left Moscow with some still unresolved issues that we are getting worked out now that the Olympics are over. In addition, the President and Secretary General didn’t want any rules announcements until after the Games. The ISSF Committees meet in November so the plan now is to release, post and publish the 2017 Rules immediately after that.

In the meantime, I do not expect changes in any of the new rules that were approved in Moscow except for one possibility in the Shotgun Rules and a couple concerning electronic target complaint resolution. To help you and the NCAA Rifle leaders in your planning, I prepared a Summary of ISSF 2017 Rules Changes that will impact on Rifle shooting. I cannot give you an absolute guarantee that there will be no further changes, but I think you are safe in assuming that these ISSF changes are on the way and that athletes should prepare for them.


Now his summary ... this is converted from his format:
==========================================================
Summary of ISSF 2017 Rules Changes
Summary prepared by Gary Anderson, gary.anderson@issf-sports.org based on 2017-2020 ISSF Rules approved by the ISSF Administrative Council on 30 June 2016.

1. Hearing Protection. Athletes and coaches may wear only sound reducing, but not sound enhancing, devices. Competition officials may wear sound enhancing devices.

2. Communication Devices. Athletes may not have mobile phones, other hand-held communication devices or wrist-worn devices on the firing line.

3. Blinders. Rifle and pistol athletes may no longer wear side blinders. A 30 mm front blinder and/or a 30 mm blinder on the rear sight continue to be permitted.

4. Single Position Finals. The Final is increased from 20 to 24 shots. The first two 3-shot series are increased to 5-shot series. The 5-shot series have 250-second time limits. Eliminations begin after the 12th shot and continue after every two shots until the gold and silver medal winners are decided after 24 shots.

5. Single Position Finals. The Preparation and Sighting Time is reduced from eight (8) to five (5) minutes.

6. Three-Position Finals. No change.

7. Rifle Sights. A single corrective lens may be inserted in the rear sight.

8. Air Rifle Butt-Plate. Any offset of the butt-plate or butt-plate parts to the right or left of the butt-stock center will be measured according to the outside edge of the butt-plate, which may not be more than 30 mm from the butt-stock center.

9. Air Rifle Butt-Plate. The lower limit to butt-plate adjustment (was 220 mm) is eliminated. There is no longer any limit to downward butt-plate adjustment.

10. Air Rifle and Smallbore Rifle Butt-Stock. The lowest point of the butt-stock (area between the butt-plate and pistol grip) may not extend more than 140 mm below the center-line of the bore.

11. Air Rifle Fore-end Depth. The maximum depth of the fore-end was increased from 90 mm to 120 mm below the center-line of the bore.

12. Air Rifle Butt-Stock. “Any devices or weights projecting downward or outward (laterally) from the butt-stock are prohibited”
13. Rifle Weights. Weights attached to the butt-stock must be “within the fundamental shape of the stock.” Weights may not be taped to the rifle.

14. Rifle Clothing. No change.

15. Rifle Bipods. Bipods, whether fixed or folding, must be removed from the rifle during match firing times.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:51 pm 
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I did not want to muddy my post above, but a takeaway here:

So nope - no side blinders

But ... you get a lens in your rear sight if you choose....

Wow - no lower limit to buttplates

Fore-end depth from 90 to 120cm ... HUGE! able to bring the rifle up higher and lower the sights ... better head up positions

They have gone from 130mm to 140mm on the area behind the grip and the buttplate ... I still HATE that as a lot (almost all???) of the older wood stocked guns ARE NO LONGER LEGAL at ISSF comps. I fully expect USA Shooting to NOT ENFORCE this rule ... it would kill the junior programs. Our 8002-S2s (wood ambi-stock) do not comply.

Single position finals change (again) ... well, win at the Tokyo Olympics and you automatically get an "OR" after your score!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:50 am 
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Being able to put a corrective lens on the rear sight is great as far as I'm concerned.

Just need to mount a lens there and no ridiculous shooting glasses to contend with. :)

Saw a couple of sights that were set up for this and was disappointed that they wouldn't be competition legal. Now to go and find them again.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:11 pm 
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Does anyone know the rational why side blinders will not be legal?

Chip


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:16 pm 
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ChipEck wrote:
Does anyone know the rational why side blinders will not be legal?
Chip

ABSOLUTLEY!!! You cannot see the shooters face when the TV cameras are panning the shooters.

No, I am serious here. The sport will be wasted in the long term because if you take this to it's most logical conclusion, the media do NOT want to see shooting at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:04 pm 
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For point 7 about the sights, is this what the Centra/MEC Eagle (not Eagle II or Eagle Eye) is? Can you put a corrective lens in it and screw it onto your iris?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:23 am 
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jhmartin wrote:
to it's most logical conclusion, the media do NOT want to see shooting at all.


Hm, we in Germany (and many european countries) saw each final of the Olympic shooting events in TV or at least in livestream coverage via the websites of the TV stations. The Final Archery Women had a quota of 9 mio viewers in Germany (80 mio people), the Men's Final 60 shots prone had about 7 mio viewers here.

See also:
http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=2672 and (very interesting) https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/sports/shooting/

It's maybe worth a discussion, which is better: to reach every shooter or to reach many uninterested people via channels, that have a huge coverage, but with an immense spreading loss.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:31 am 
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Very badly worded.

What's the centre of the butt-stock on an already angled and offset butt section like FWB/Walther, or something custom...?

No lower limit on butt plate. Limit on butt stock. So have a shallower butt stock and a deeper butt plate.

“Any devices or weights projecting downward or outward (laterally) from the butt-stock are prohibited”. Like pistol grips or forends?

Bipods, whether fixed or folding, must be removed from the rifle during match firing times. Tripods dont?

Athletes may not have mobile phones, other hand-held communication devices or wrist-worn devices on the firing line. Watches? If they're not meant to be covered, why omit the word communication?

Is someone actually paid money to come up with this mess?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:17 am 
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robf wrote:
Very badly worded.
And that is new?

robf wrote:
What's the centre of the butt-stock on an already angled and offset butt section like FWB/Walther, or something custom...?

No lower limit on butt plate. Limit on butt stock. So have a shallower butt stock and a deeper butt plate.
Behind the grip. The original interpretation was to give a shooter the benefit of the doubt to allow them to conform their rifle to a wood version of a stock. But with the 140mm rule behind the grip, they are all but eliminating wood stocks now ... and feel justified as there was only 1 in the Suhl final last year and none in the Olympic final.

The fore-end rail going to 120 (from 90), indeed will help shooters with tall necks, but the purpose is really to get as much contact away from the RT side of the chest as possible. That's also why there is now no limit to the bottom of the buttplate. Ideally they want NO CONTACT forward of the shoulder (except for the forward support hand)... and it seems as they are groping for a way to accomplish that. (Simple really --- just make a rule that the line between the competitors feet may not exceed 45° from parallel to the line --- then wood can come back)

robf wrote:
“Any devices or weights projecting downward or outward (laterally) from the butt-stock are prohibited”. Like pistol grips or forends?
Behind the grip. Oh and it also looks like the depth of the grip (from CL of bore) is still 160mm.

robf wrote:
Bipods, whether fixed or folding, must be removed from the rifle during match firing times. Tripods dont?
That would run afoul of the intent of the rule don't you think?

robf wrote:
Athletes may not have mobile phones, other hand-held communication devices or wrist-worn devices on the firing line. Watches? If they're not meant to be covered, why omit the word communication?
There are a few of the "fitness" watches that can receive and display communications data. My guess the wording error is from Gary ... here is the way it is worded in the CMP 3-P Air Rules
CMP 3PAR 11th Ed wrote:
Athletes may not use personal mobile phones or other hand-held communication devices (i.e. tablets, etc.) or wrist-worn devices (i. e. smart watches) on the firing line. Athletes may use timers, but mobile phones with timer apps and any timers that make audible sounds are not permitted.


robf wrote:
Is someone actually paid money to come up with this mess?
Not only that, but great big bennies in terms of being treated like kings wherever they go.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:10 am 
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jhmartin wrote:
And that is new?


Nope, but having had several goes at it, you'd think there'd be some learning happening.


jhmartin wrote:
No lower limit on butt plate. Limit on butt stock. So have a shallower butt stock and a deeper butt plate.
Behind the grip. The original interpretation was to give a shooter the benefit of the doubt to allow them to conform their rifle to a wood version of a stock. But with the 140mm rule behind the grip, they are all but eliminating wood stocks now ... and feel justified as there was only 1 in the Suhl final last year and none in the Olympic final.[/quote]

I understand that. But offset butts were banned, so manufacturers started offsetting the whole butt. Now you're allowed to effectively offset the butt plate, but it's measured from the butt centre. What's that when the entire butt is offset and/or angled?

jhmartin wrote:
The fore-end rail going to 120 (from 90), indeed will help shooters with tall necks, but the purpose is really to get as much contact away from the RT side of the chest as possible. That's also why there is now no limit to the bottom of the buttplate. Ideally they want NO CONTACT forward of the shoulder (except for the forward support hand)... and it seems as they are groping for a way to accomplish that.


Agreed, but if they don't actually bother checking it in ISSF finals for instance, what's the point? It's really simple, say nothing can touch the body except the rear face of the butt, and say x mm forward of that. And actually enforce the rule.

jhmartin wrote:
Behind the grip. Oh and it also looks like the depth of the grip (from CL of bore) is still 160mm.
Yes, sorry, got that now.

robf wrote:
Bipods, whether fixed or folding, must be removed from the rifle during match firing times. Tripods dont?

jhmartin wrote:
That would run afoul of the intent of the rule don't you think?
Maybe, but not of the rule itself. We already have one international coach teaching methods to get around rules or that deliberately seek to challenge their inspection, so why no challenge the actual words.

robf wrote:
Athletes may not have mobile phones, other hand-held communication devices or wrist-worn devices on the firing line. Watches? If they're not meant to be covered, why omit the word communication?


jhmartin wrote:
There are a few of the "fitness" watches that can receive and display communications data. My guess the wording error is from Gary ... here is the way it is worded in the CMP 3-P Air Rules
CMP 3PAR 11th Ed wrote:
Athletes may not use personal mobile phones or other hand-held communication devices (i.e. tablets, etc.) or wrist-worn devices (i. e. smart watches) on the firing line. Athletes may use timers, but mobile phones with timer apps and any timers that make audible sounds are not permitted.


So watches are out then? I actually think they should be, it's a technical advantage if used as such and not covered by the rules it seems already. My watch stands at least 10mm off the wrist and is pretty sturdy.

robf wrote:
Is someone actually paid money to come up with this mess?


jhmartin wrote:
Not only that, but great big bennies in terms of being treated like kings wherever they go.


Yes well, impotent if they don't bother following them :D


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:24 am 
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@ --> RobF

Don't disagree with you.

Of note on the final ... maybe you are referring to the hat touching the sights?
Explained to me by one of the coaches that it was decided to allow it as the lighting over the line (placed that way for the TV cameras mind you) was almost shining into the competitors faces such that they could not see the targets. So it was allowed for them to do that to block the lights..... unintended consequences .... again


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Yep that. And... Visors have also been touching rearsights. Anatomically shaped grips and grip tape on pistol grips. Pistol grips touching chests. All in Issf World Cup or Olympic finals this year.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:17 pm 
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robf wrote:
Yep that. And... Visors have also been touching rearsights. Anatomically shaped grips and grip tape on pistol grips. Pistol grips touching chests. All in Issf World Cup or Olympic finals this year.


Again ... I've noted in another post I think any Olympic Final official that approached and yellow carded a competitor during the "televised final" would probably be working their last final. The show must go on w/o any appearance of issues ... well unless crossfires, etc ... then it's "exciting".


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:51 pm 
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I've heard it was said in 2012.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:17 pm 
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Can someone help?
I see one of the rules likely to change is the shooting glasses. I had high hopes this was going to allow us to use a monocular type glass attached to the iris. After reading the rule it says "inserted" not attached, I hope this is a typo.......


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:28 pm 
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imac wrote:
Can someone help?
I see one of the rules likely to change is the shooting glasses. I had high hopes this was going to allow us to use a monocular type glass attached to the iris. After reading the rule it says "inserted" not attached, I hope this is a typo.......

My opinion is that it is "inserted" in the rear sight optical system, so I think a lens screwed onto the iris end (like the centra mirror type device) is OK.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:37 am 
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Did i just read 3po air rifle 10m as an official issf évent ?

Hell yes, in France we have this for children, i loved it but now have to wait summer season to go to the 50m range.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:25 am 
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No taped on weights. I guess this rules out stick-on wheel weights


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:37 am 
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Thomas Monto wrote:
No taped on weights. I guess this rules out stick-on wheel weights
I have specifically asked Gary on this item ... he's not yet gotten back to me. As soon as he does, I'll post. I heard they will allow, but the qualification was if the tape was not visible.....
If you want to grab this pic and send it to your ISSF, feel free!

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:04 am 
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Piefou wrote:
Did i just read 3po air rifle 10m as an official issf évent ?

Hell yes, in France we have this for children, i loved it but now have to wait summer season to go to the 50m range.


I think he was implying that the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) 3-P Air Rules were updated with the proposed ISSF rule changes, not that the ISSF was incorporating a 3-P Air event. I could be wrong but that is my understanding. Joel?


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