TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
It is currently Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:52 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:37 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Colorado
In order to establish and maintain eye alignment with the sights while shooting prone, which is preferable: (1) Some degree of force between the cheek and stock, or (2) a completely relaxed contact between the cheek and stock?

Thanks

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:33 am
Posts: 1249
Location: Taunton, Somerset
Jim,

received wisdom is that the head should rest on the cheekpiece under its own weight, with the neck relaxed. In practise some very good shooters do apply some pressure. A relaxed neck obviously requires the cheekpiece (and stock) to fit the shooter, so the head is supported and positioned behind the sights.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:37 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Colorado
Tim

Thanks for the reply.

My thought was that muscle tension anywhere is to be avoided. But as you point out, I have seen videos of some folks who appear to apply quite a bit of force.

I'm still in the dark ages using a stock with a non-adjustable cheek rest. When I relax I slide down and am looking under the rear sight. I have a 1/4 inch thick non skid cheek rest pad coming for this one.

I have a second stock for the rifle. Also without an adjustable cheek rest. That stock requires me to apply some downwards force to line up with the sight.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:33 am
Posts: 1249
Location: Taunton, Somerset
Jim,

forum members Eric Uptagrafft and Guy Starik have both admitted to using some pressure. But then Petra Zublasing of Italy does well with a lump of putty and minimal pressure - the result of dental braces as a teenager apparently.

A cheekpiece that fits well is important. There is a very good article on the US Shooting website that discusses cheekpiece fit. I'll post a link if I can find it.

I'm a bit wary of foam myself, as I've seen clubmates using soft open-cell foam that compresses under their cheek, and doesn't offer consistent and stable support. They also tended to build up the side too much, and actually made things worse. If your rifle has no cheekpiece this would be less of an issue. Wood and solid materials like modelling putty are better IMO.

If I remember rightly, you had problems with the other stock a while ago - inconsistent results with irons, but OK 'scope? The thought was that the cheekpiece was a fraction high for the irons? If that stock fits well otherwise (better than the current one), would it be worthwhile shaving down the cheekpiece, and adding a layer/s of card when shooting 'scoped?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:36 am
Posts: 34
Location: France
Also, if you put pressure, be sure that it doesn't apply "lateral forces" on the cheekpiece.

For some months i shoot with a totally flat cheekpiece, at 10m and 50m 3pos, and my trigger management is now way better.

_________________
~~# FWB P700 Alu Blue & Finale Match pellets // Annie 1913 Precise & Eley Sport bullets #~~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:59 pm
Posts: 270
JIm,

Whatever has clear vision (eye centered) and is repeatable.

Keep in mind changes to position height, body angle to the line, forend thickness, stock cant, sight/scope height, cheekpiece shape/height/offset/angle, buttplate position... can effect eye alignment and cheek pressure. I fought it for several years when I went to a thin forend then reached out to Boyd for help. If your neck muscles are strong, light seems to be easier to repeat (note the evolution of the Anschutz cheekpiece) and light pressure won't distort your vision. Also check that your setup works on ranges that have slopes different from your home range; up hill in particular.


Mark


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:37 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Colorado
Tim

You are correct - I have posted about this problem before. My troubleshooting has not been definitive due to inconsistent test results - sometimes OK, other times dismal. The problem has been (1) my bad shots look and feel like they should be good, and (2) catching myself actually losing head position while breaking the shot.

I keep the rifle shouldered while reloading. It is a Remington 40X so I have to move quite a bit to load. A few days ago I was able to confirm that during a five shot string my face can slip down the stock during reloads leaving me looking under the rear sight when relaxed.

After checking my journal (which is badly lacking in detail) it appears my iron sight problems coincided with changing stocks. At the same time I also changed from metal to clear plastic front apertures and started using larger diameter front apertures further complicating the issue.

This is a ca 1970 Freeland International stock. The butt does not have a comb (something narrow and angular). Instead it is a broad and smooth transition from top to left side.

I have another 40X stock. This one is a copy of the Winchester 52E prone stock. It has a very high comb/cheek rest. I installed that stock today. The comb is narrow enough I can "hook" the cheek bone on the comb and the rear sight and eye are aligned. I shot two targets. I did shoot a few 9s but I was able to call all my wide shots. I have not been able to do that for a long time.

I am optimistic regarding irons for the first time in years.

As to cheek pressure, I need to use some with this Win 52E style stock - that is what prompted this thread. Also, I have seen videos of Eric U. getting in position - he seems to use a significant amount of down force on the stock.

I understand your concern about foam. I believe the material I ordered is solid rubber, not foam. I like the Freeland stock and will permanently alter the comb / cheek rest if the rubber pads shows promise.

Tim I appreciate your patience on this. I should have identified the cause of this problem log ago.

Best regards

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:37 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Colorado
Piefou wrote:
Also, if you put pressure, be sure that it doesn't apply "lateral forces" on the cheekpiece.

For some months i shoot with a totally flat cheekpiece, at 10m and 50m 3pos, and my trigger management is now way better.


Good advice - thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:37 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Colorado
Mark

All good info - thanks.

Many of my problems are self inflicted due to me using vintage equipment. I look at the geometry of the current Anschutz cheek rest vs the stuff I have and it is hard to believe anyone ever shot well with a stock like mine. Mine has no physical frame of reference to relate to.

I only shoot conventional prone. The ranges I frequent are level to slightly higher at 100 yards. No matter the slope, I have more trouble depressing the muzzle and getting good NPA on the lower bulls at 50 yards than I do at 100 yards.

I had nearly given up on this problem. Enough so that this season for the first time I took advantage of the +60 years of age exception and shot Regionals at Amarillo TX and Byers CO using a scope on both days.

Maybe I'll be able to shoot the Firecracker 4800 with irons this year.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:33 am
Posts: 1249
Location: Taunton, Somerset
Jim,

Good scores can be shot with older rifles. However in my experience some degree of modification is needed, and I think often intended by the designers. Even with the adjustment built-in to modern stock's some shooters still modify the grip/cheekpiece/fore-end/height of sights.

Mark's comments about the nature of the position and the fit of the whole rifle are spot on. The cheekpiece is part of the whole.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Cheek Pressure
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 428
Location: A new global Great Britain
Piefou wrote:
Also, if you put pressure, be sure that it doesn't apply "lateral forces" on the cheekpiece.

For some months i shoot with a totally flat cheekpiece, at 10m and 50m 3pos, and my trigger management is now way better.

My shots were going wild when I started. Realized I was clenching my jaw unconsciously on trigger pull. Now I always shoot wirh mouth open wide. Looks strange but I cant clench the jaw that way..

_________________
My Youtube


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group