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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:32 pm 
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My daughter is starting to pick up on smallbore and we are looking at an anschutz series 20 action. We are looking for advice on the additional features. She is just starting out but we're still looking for something of good quality. Any feedback appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:33 am
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Location: Taunton, Somerset
Firstly are you looking to buy new or used? You can make a big saving by buying used, but if you have a very specific wish list, you may have a wait.

Ok, the additional features, these will vary slightly depending on the model/stock option. For instance a 2007 will have an adjustable cheekpiece (using wedges on '90s vintage guns) but no butt hook as standard, although these can be added. 2012, 2013 wood and the 2313 and 2018 alu stocks have both an adjustable cheekpiece and a hook (on a fully adjustable base). The alu stocks also add an adjustable grip. The 2313 was Anschutz's first alu stock, and was sinter cast. It was replaced by the machined-from-billet 2018 around 2009.

All the adjustment is there to fit the rifle to the shooter, so their shooting position is more relaxed and stable. At first she probably won't need the fiddler bits, and thee add to the cost now, but these will be beneficial in time. In terms of rifle weight, I believe the 2012 was lighter than the alu stocks; it's basically a 2013 rifle, scaled down to suit women.

The 20 series differs from Anschutz's Match 54 rifles in that the barrel is clamped into the receiver, allowing quick no-gunsmith barrel changes with a pre-chambered drop-in barrel. In terms of barrel size you can have the same 69cm heavy or 66cm light as Match 54 rifles, or a 50cm barrel. The latter comes with a muzzle tube from the factory to bring the sight radius to the same as the full-length barrels.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:06 am
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Location: Surrey
Depending on your daughters age I would say that you would be better looking at the round action 54 series (1907 or 1913) as the action is narrower than the square 20 series and will fit her support hand better. There's also no benefit in being able to swop barrels at this early stage of her shooting. Weight wise she would be better with the shorter barrel 1907. You could then add an extension tube if required but I suspect if she's young she won't have the accommodation issues the rest of us do.

If you're feeling really flush treat her to a new 54.30 as the loading port is closer and will be a benefit if she's small / short arms.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:28 am 
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Thank you for the quick responses. She is 17, a junior in HS and has shot just air only up until December where she shot small bore at a JORC competition for the first time ever with a borrowed gun and placed second at that competition. Seeing as how she would like to shoot in college, it has been advised by her coaches to get progressive with small bore as well as air. She shot this past weekend for only the second time and had best score for kneeling. We figure it is now time to get serious on the getting her her own gun. I will show her these responses so far...she is more knowledgeable on the verbage and needs than I am.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
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Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
How tall is she, what's her (approx) weight and how strong is she?
(what does she shoot for an air rifle now?)

I agree with Bryan above .... If you are looking at Anschutz, the 1907 in a 1912 or 1914 stock might be better suited.
If she is smaller, then possibly look at a FWB 2700 lite or (if you are flush w/ cash) look at a KK-500 for a smaller frame.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:18 pm 
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She is 5'7" and 145 lbs. She currently shoots a Feinwerkbau 700 for air. The Anschutz seems to be the name I hear dropped from her coach, vs. the Feinwerkbau in regards to small bore. This is all very helpful so far.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:33 am
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Location: Taunton, Somerset
Feinwerkbau make a good smallbore. The 3x20 Champion at Rio, Barbara Engleder, has shot a FWB 2700 for many years. I don't think there is a vast difference in accuracy between FWB and Anschutz, but Anschutz have been in the business for longer, and are better known. Unless your daughter has a strong personal preference for one, consider price, availability, resale value etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:06 am 
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Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
bkschwarz wrote:
The Anschutz seems to be the name I hear dropped from her coach, vs. the Feinwerkbau in regards to small bore.
I'm not knocking Anschutz here at all ... my daughters shoot them ... as well as most of my juniors. Just don't let the coach decide the rifle ... the shooter should have a large input there. See if you cannot get some of these others in her hands ... even if just to hold

But I do have 3 shooters I've worked with that are on the same size as your daughter that use other products and are very happy with them. Two are currently collegiate shooters that started with "20" series rifles and they were just too big (LOP not adjustable short enough ... and a bit heavy) for them. Both of them now shoot FWB 2700-lites and adore them.

One of my juniors just switched out from a 1912 to a KK500-Lightweight. Her arms are just short and we could not get the gun short enough for her to get to the loading port w/o completely taking it out of her shoulder. Now .... that KK500 ... while it was not my recommendation, but she got a chance to see and play with one a bit, is very nice and she shoots much better with it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:19 pm
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
With the introduction of the 54.30 I would actually suggest that you take a hard look and think long on a 2000 series. They are fine actions although I doubt anschutz will continue to manufacture them for much longer at this point. I would hate to see a new shooter go that route only to find they can no longer get spares.I have also found the 2000 series a bit more finicky tuning them, of course your milage may vary. That said Anschutz is not the only game in town. Take a look at the Walther, Feinwerkbau, Grunig, and Bleiker options out there. The latter 2 are quite a bit more expensive but as the sayings go "you buy once cry once" and "the price of the rifle is a mere down payment for the cost of the ammo you will shoot through it". Give a call to Carl Joos (Champion Shooters Supply) and Neil Stepp (ISS) and get some advice from them, heck they may even have some used equipment on hand.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:49 am
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I actually have the suspicion that the 54.30 itself would be discontinued rather than any of the 19xx or 20xx series rifles. The 54.30 isn’t enough of a departure from the previous models and the enthusiasm for the 54.30 is muted at best. What I would have liked is if Anschutz made a new rifle using the square action as its base. Move the loading port back and keeping the clamp arrangement for the barrel so it’s easy for shooters to change themselves. I would have bought one for sure if they did that.

That being said there are so many Anschutz’s floating around (at least of the more recent vintage – 18XX, 19XX, 20XX) that I think there will always be spare parts made and/or available for these rifles. Small things like springs, screws, etc. should be readily available and Anschutz have been very nice about sending me free screws and things when I ask politely. Need a new barrel on your older Anschutz? Well just contact one of the many gunsmiths that can cut a Shilen, Benchmark, etc down to whatever length you want and have them install a new barrel.

The only real difference with the 54.30 compared to the previous models is a screwed in barrel, shorter bolt and shorter firing pin. If you’re worried about the firing pin on an older Anschutz you can definitely buy extras and have them fitted and ready to go in the event you experience a breakage. Now if you have somehow severely damaged a bolt or an actual receiver than something has gone terribly wrong, but the chances of that assuming proper care, handling, and maintenance is very low.

I don’t think you will go wrong with a 20xx series rifle. And if you can find a used one, try to get one with a 500mm barrel. It’s a great rifle for female shooters for the weight balance.

I have switched over to a KK500 and it has definitely proved superior in terms of accuracy and ergonomics compared to my old Anschutz, but there are still days I miss my old 1907 Annie. There’s another new version of the KK500 available called the Ultralight. It has a shorter stock compared to the other KK500 models. Unfortunately, Walther has eliminated the KK300 line aside from the Blacktec. I wouldn’t hesitate on a used KK300 either.

Another rifle to look at is the Turbo from DiOrio Manufacturing in Virginia. I've seen a couple in person and they look to have good build quality and great backing if you have any issues. And they'll make a rifle to suit your specific needs.

Feinwerkbau makes great air rifles and their smallbore guns will do the job too. They don’t have anything new out in the smallbore range so either they are secretly developing a new rifle we will see in the near future or they have figuratively thrown in the towel in the face of the competition from Walther, Bleiker, and Grunig.

If possible one must definitely try before buying. As what works for one person may not work for another. Things like fore end width and shape do make a difference to some. The big thing now is ergonomics.

Below is a link to an old post where I compared loading port location on the different rifles available at the time. The 54.30 moved it back some, but not a whole lot. The loading port again is important especially for those with short arms.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51257&hilit=loading+port

When it comes down to it all these rifles will shoot tens...so there has to be something else about a rifle that draws the shooter to it over another make or model.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:29 am
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The new Turbo 3P rifles are pretty hard to pass up if you are in the US. That kind of accuracy plus all the stock adjustments necessary at that price is crazy good.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:00 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN
Get good used 2013 series, aluminum stock, add a lighter lilja barrel, perfect rifle that she can use for many many years. Stay away from older 54's, a 1913/1907 series is also very good but heavier barrels may be an issue. Just look at what the National Team is using and who is winning the medals. You can also call out to the NTC and ask for advice, they will be glad to help.

_________________
Ken
USA Shooting Life and Charter Member
NRA Life Member


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:13 am
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If I could add my 2 cents. I too have a kid who is less than tall and struggles to load an Anschutz in prone. The Anschutz 19 and 20 loading ports are well ahead of the trigger making it hard for some to load in position. The 54.30 brings it back some but not much.

But, as we all know nothing is too good for our kids, I strongly suggest you look at the Walther KK 500 or the Bleiker. Of course you might need to get a 2nd mortgage. The Anschutz is $4k, the Walther $5k and the Bleiker $10k.

The Walther and Bleiker both have the loading port directly over the trigger making it easy to load and shoot in prone with out changing position much.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Check into the Turbo. Cheaper than the others and made in USA.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
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Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
The Turbo is probably not a great fit for a smaller female. It is one of the heaviest out there


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:21 am
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While our standard build with a 25" long barrel may not be the best fit for a smaller statured competitor due to the weight, we do offer several barrel options to accommodate a smaller competitor. Feel free to contact myself (anthony@dioriomfg.com) or Tom (tom.csenge@dioriomfg.com) to discuss the options.

Best Regards, Anthony DiOrio


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:53 am
Posts: 47
Location: Pennsylvania
I looked the Turbos over from muzzle to buttplate, and that is indeed a great rifle. They do have different barrel configurations for different shooters. The guys at the table really showed enthusiasm over the rifles and I am sure they would help you in any way possible to get the best rifle in your daughters hands. Plus it's made in U.S. if any problems occur.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:16 am
Posts: 58
Location: Livingston, TN.
I know this post is a couple months old, but I wanted to chime in on the Turbo rifle. We got the Turbo with a 20 inch barrel for my daughter (16 and average sized) and I can't say enough good things about the rifle and the company. Anthony and Tom are outstanding to deal with and the rifle is a thing of beauty. A very nicely built rifle from an American company that goes out of their way to make their customers happy.


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