TargetTalk

So after reading through a bunch of threads here via several searches, I still have a few questions. As a bit of background, 35 year old male, interested in precision not sporter, and offhand (my knees can't handle kneeling these days, and I have a small bore for prone). I'm in general a buy once, cry once type within reason. The primary reason I'm looking at getting into 10m Air Rifle, is I'm looking for something that I can practice at home with. I love 50m prone, but it's frowned upon to discharge a firearm in the backyard of a major municipality.

1) What's the best action type? From what I can tell the only reason anyone shoots CO2 over HPA is that they have a C02 rifle and it works for them. Pretty much everything I've seen says go HPA in a PCP and don't look back. Is there anything I'm missing about C02? What are the downsides to an SSP in offhand shooting?

2) Recommendations on new rifles for a beginner with say a $1k budget? All threads here on TT regarding an intro rifle for an adult shooter are a couple of years old so they don't have info on the current crop of rifles.

3) If I can find a used rifle, what are things to look for in terms of wear and areas to make sure are in good function? There are plenty of recommendations on used rifles in the older threads, but if there any lesser known suggestions I'm all ears.

Thanks in advance,

-Jenrick

Jenrick:

1) I have had some CO2 rifles and they can be made to work but CO2 is just sort-of a pain compared to compressed air. You need to freeze the cylinders to fill them, weigh them, etc. Also it seemed to me that bringing a CO2 gun in from the cold car gets a little squirrely. This is due to the vapor pressure variations in the CO2 with temperature (I think).

2) I would not buy a new rifle on a $1k budget because I think the used rifle you can get for that price will be far superior. Personally I love the FWB P70. I have personally owned 6 or so of them over the years jr, and adult and have been involved with a jr program that had a good number of them. Never ever had a problem with one. I mostly always ignored the recommendations on rebuilding the regulators and replacing air cylinders. The wood stock always fit me great. In selling them I was never able to sell one for much over $800 so someplace in there you should be able to find one.

SSP is ok too but I would go for a PCP gun. If you get at all serious about shooting you will find that breaking position to cock a SSP gun will not help your performance.

You should be able to get a Walther LGR (SSP) for under $500. At one time they were impossible to beat on the world stage. Since you're only going to be shooting offhand, there will be no problem with "breaking position." Shoot one for a while and you'll realize the expense and headaches you've avoided going to CO2 or PCP. If using one doesn't satisfy you, THEN move on (not up) to something else.

I tend to agree with Rover. There are a ton of older rifles like he described, or SSP's like the FWB 601, 602, 603 series. Jim E seems to have a steady source of these rifles for sale on this board. Jim is a 100% reliable guy to buy from. Look at what he posts and jump on it before someone else does.

You couldnt give me a ssp! Enough said. Buy a used pcp if 1000 is your budget.

Doing some looking, if you had a choice between a FWB 300s and a Walther LGM-2 which would be the better option? As far as I can tell from reading, both are excellent rifles, that will outshoot 99.9% of current competitors out there. Is there anything which would give one an nod over the other?

Thanks to everyone for all the info so far!

-Jenrick

Yeah! The FWB is a springer, the Walther a SSP, which is what I recommended.

Spring vs. SSP:
The SSP is easier to shoot accurately than a springer.
As I recall, when the Walther SSP came out, all the spring match rifles were instantly obsolete, and they had to make the target smaller.
So spring vs. SSP, go SSP. I shoot a spring match rifle for fun, not accuracy.

SSP:
For SSP the issue may be the charging/compression stroke, and how easy or difficult it is to do.
I have not shot a precision SSP so I can't comment on this.
But it is not as simple and easy as cocking a CA or co2 rifle.

CO2:
If you are shooting at home, you don't have the temp hassle that you do when traveling, so co2 is OK.
That is unless you live and shoot where it is COLD or HOT.
- Though I shoot my co2 AP down into the mid 40s (F) just fine.
- With HOT temp, you have to be careful of co2 expansion and resultant valve lock up.
- Filling a co2 cylinder at home is not a problem. A $25 food scale works just fine for weighing the co2 cylinder. I put the cylinder in the fridge (not the freezer) for half an hour before filling. I get the 5 pound bulk tank filed and hydro tested at the fire extinguisher shop.

CA:
If you can do CA/PCP, I would go that route.

Personally, I would go with a used tier 1, rather than a new tier 2, and forget the tier 3 stuff.
So I would not go with the Air Arms MPR. Instead, I would get a used Anschutz 2002CA or FWB P70, or similar.
Some of the tier 3 rifles are attractive, until you look at the accuracy. The advertized CTC accuracy specs of some of the tier 3 rifles is so bad that a sportster rifle could beat it.

Re: the stock. I found that the ambi stock of my P70-jr is really, NEITHER right hand nor left hand. The dedicated RH stock of the Anschutz 2002CA was so much more comfortable for my right hand to grip. So my opinion is to get a dedicated RH or LH rifle. Or try the ambi rifle to see if your trigger hand feels comfortable.

Air Arms MPR is not tier 3. Shoot one before judging. Its maybe tier 2 because the multi purpose ambi stock needs a bit of tweeking and its a bit light. Great for our older shooters though.

My wife shoots with a CZ200T (sold by Air Arms as well) and while it is a tier 2 rifle, she can hold her own in club competition. Yes, the original sights are a bit dodgy, but I replaced those with Anschutz. Added a foreshaft riser and some additional weight as well. I bought mine in CZ, so I only paid 300 USD for it. In youth leagues this a very popular rifle as well.

The Anschutz 2001 is a nice SSP and the Anschutz 2002 is a good PCP rifle. You really cannot go wrong with either. Pricewise both of these would be less than $1000

TenMetrePeter wrote:Air Arms MPR is not tier 3. Shoot one before judging. Its maybe tier 2 because the multi purpose ambi stock needs a bit of tweeking and its a bit light. Great for our older shooters though.

I did not say the AA MPR is a tier 3 rifle. But maybe the 2 sentences next to each other made it look like it. I would say AA is a tier 2 rifle.

It is specifically the Chinese AR2078B/2079B that I was referring to as tier 3. I thought the rifle had potential as a starter rifle, until I read the accuracy specs, 0.24 inch/6.1mm CTC at 10m. I am pretty sure that the Daisy and Crossman sportsters will shoot as good or better than that.
OK, I checked the 10m target specs, and 6.1mm CTC could hold the 9 ring. So maybe it isn't as bad as I had thought.

As for the Tau-200, I don't know enough about that rifle to call it a tier 2 or tier 3 rifle. Probably tier 2. The spec that I found said 5.5mm CTC accuracy.

I unfotunately have a soft spot for these cheaper lower end rifles.

Is that soft spot in your head?

Rover wrote:Is that soft spot in your head?

yup

You can get an Anschutz 2002 CA for about $1000. A used scuba tank found locally can be as low as $50, another $60 to have it tested and filled and you are good to go.

I love my FWB 602, purchased from Jim E, but will admit that laying it down to pump and then back up into position, it does take its toll, but then I am an old geezer shooting offhand without support, and inexperienced at offhand to boot. An old newbie. but that 602 is SO PRECISE!