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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:29 am 
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:21 am
Posts: 7
Location: Salem, NJ
Hello,
I'm currently preparing for 4-H Nationals in air rifle. I have recently started shooting AFAG's Edge. When I recieved the rifle, it came with three front sight aperature: 4.2, 4.0, and 3.8. The size of these are just too big for me to work with. Does anyone know the proper place to find replacements? I don't see any at AFAG's web site. Or, would one of these sizes work:
http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=931&cat=&page=1
Thanks for any help,
J


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 448
JHill wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently preparing for 4-H Nationals in air rifle. I have recently started shooting AFAG's Edge. When I recieved the rifle, it came with three front sight aperature: 4.2, 4.0, and 3.8. The size of these are just too big for me to work with. Does anyone know the proper place to find replacements? I don't see any at AFAG's web site. Or, would one of these sizes work:
http://www.championshooters.com/store/product.php?productid=931&cat=&page=1
Thanks for any help,
J


You can try Neal Stepp at ISS in Texas. There are a bunch of different opinions on aperture size. I have even seen math formulas used to calculate the aperture size. However, I accept the information that was passed onto me by Dave Johnson the National Rifle Coach at one of the coaches conferences that I attended. He thought that the kids are using apertures that are to small, especially in the standing position. He advised us to go to the largest aperture sizes you can stand.

Dave sighted some training that was done with kids were they removed the entire aperture and just used the globe that held the aperture and after a short period of time they were able demonstrate that with that large amount of light around the target their shots groups were better and since they kids were able to get center the target in the front sight faster their hold time went down.

They have done scientific studies to prove the point. The eye is able to seek the center of the target automatically and with more light around the target your eyes are not only able to seek the center better, but with more light around the target you can see when there is even amount of light around the target which is a good indication that the target is truly centered in the front sight. This can be hard to do if you don't have enough light, especially when your trying to make the difference between a nine or ten.

When I started the junior program years ago we ere of the old school, which was to use the smallest aperture. I tried Dave's advise with the kids after the coaches conference in our club and we went from 4.2 to 6.0mm aperture sights and after two weeks the kids were not only getting getting more tens, but more center shots. They were also able to get their shots off more quickly as their eyes were able to center the target in their sights much more quickly, which reduced their hold time. Except for one kid, I have never gotten one of the kids who tried it want to go back to the smaller apertures.

The Coach at the University of Reno Nevada has been convinced and has mandated that his team go to the larger aperture sizes and says it has made a contribution in getting his team to the NCAA Championship. The smallest aperture for his smallbore team is 5.0.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:57 pm
Posts: 527
Location: California
I "think" this is what you want.
http://www.championshooters.com/store/p ... 325&page=3
BUT you need to contact AF to check if their front sight uses an 18mm insert. I could not find the specs for the front sight on the AF web site.

Similar to Randy I don't use a tight aperture. But for a different reason...wobble.
The method that I was taught was to select an aperture size that allows me to keep the bull inside the aperture most/all of the time. What this means is the aperture size depends on how small or large my wobble is on a particular day. My coach told me that a tight aperture tends to cause snatching/jerking the trigger when your eye sees a perfect sight picture.

While I have not gone BIG as Randy uses, I have gone bigger than I started with, and I do prefer the larger aperture.


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 Post subject: Sights
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 448
GaryN wrote:
I "think" this is what you want.
http://www.championshooters.com/store/p ... 325&page=3
BUT you need to contact AF to check if their front sight uses an 18mm insert. I could not find the specs for the front sight on the AF web site.

Similar to Randy I don't use a tight aperture. But for a different reason...wobble.
The method that I was taught was to select an aperture size that allows me to keep the bull inside the aperture most/all of the time. What this means is the aperture size depends on how small or large my wobble is on a particular day. My coach told me that a tight aperture tends to cause snatching/jerking the trigger when your eye sees a perfect sight picture.

While I have not gone BIG as Randy uses, I have gone bigger than I started with, and I do prefer the larger aperture.


That wobble can be reduced with more practice as you develop more stamina. You can also reduce the wobble more if you can pull the rifle tighter into your shoulder. When you pull back tighter into your shoulder try not to use to much muscle as the hand your pulling back with has your trigger finger and the shoulder muscles that that your pulling back with are also connected to the trigger finger. If you pull back hard into the shoulder and then relax the rifle will usually stay there for a few seconds before it starts moving and sometimes longer. You can also try to pull back hard into the shoulder and relax the muscles just enough to keep the rifle from moving forward. If the sights are off slightly to the left or right moving the shoulder slightly back or forward can correct your sight picture. The more muscle you use puts more demand by your body for oxygen which then affects your hold time, trigger control, and how your eyes are seeing the sights.

Try not to squeeze the grips as the direction of the force should be straight back. If your squeezing the grips then your transferring sideways and other forces that go in a number of different directions depending on the different pressures being applied to the grip. You can try an experiment by dry firing a shot and as you squeeze the grip hard watch your sights closely and see the slight movements as your pulling the trigger. A guide to help you pull straight back is to use just the second creases in your fingers to apply straight back pressure on the grip to move the rifle into your shoulder.

These are somethings that may help and I am sure there is somebody out there that will disagree with these methods. All I can say is try them and if the don't work move on.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:04 am 
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 9:21 am
Posts: 7
Location: Salem, NJ
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I thought I should probably tell what I ended up doing in case someone was following this thread. I called Air Force (which is what I should have done first), I found out that they only make the three sizes (3.8, 4.0, and 4.2). They said the apeture diamater is 19.6mm and some of Frienwerkbau's 600 sight inserts will fit. They gave me a few names who sell these. I ended up buy a 10 insert set from MT. Even thought their listing says 19.8mm, the sights fit perfectly in the Edge.

Thanks for your advice. Most everyone always tells me to use a larger apature. But I have never had luck with this (especialy on prone). I had been shooting 96-98 in prone in practice with my previous rifle, but when I switched to the Edge I struggled to even shoot over 92. This is not a problem for me (no need to reply with your thoughts), but I will definitly experiment with and use your advise.

J


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 Post subject: Sights
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 448
JHill wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I thought I should probably tell what I ended up doing in case someone was following this thread. I called Air Force (which is what I should have done first), I found out that they only make the three sizes (3.8, 4.0, and 4.2). They said the apeture diamater is 19.6mm and some of Frienwerkbau's 600 sight inserts will fit. They gave me a few names who sell these. I ended up buy a 10 insert set from MT. Even thought their listing says 19.8mm, the sights fit perfectly in the Edge.

Thanks for your advice. Most everyone always tells me to use a larger apature. But I have never had luck with this (especialy on prone). I had been shooting 96-98 in prone in practice with my previous rifle, but when I switched to the Edge I struggled to even shoot over 92. This is not a problem for me (no need to reply with your thoughts), but I will definitly experiment with and use your advise.

J


You might want to check the accuracy of the rifle. The two people in this state that have used the rifle didn't think the rifles were giving them consistent accuracy, so one of them returned the rifle. He was a three time national champion in sporter, so I think he knows what he is doing.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:57 pm
Posts: 527
Location: California
Great that you found inserts that fit.
Its a bummer when you have a front sight that takes inserts, and you can't find inserts.


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 Post subject: inserts
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 448
GaryN wrote:
Great that you found inserts that fit.
Its a bummer when you have a front sight that takes inserts, and you can't find inserts.


If you have machinist with access to a CNC they can make inserts for any size. I had some made for our FWB and Anschutz rifles.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 2274
Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
From the cheap side of the tracks
If you have an oversize aperture, just sand down the outer rim.


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 Post subject: inserts
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 448
jhmartin wrote:
From the cheap side of the tracks
If you have an oversize aperture, just sand down the outer rim.


The other alternative is to bevel a larger hole in an insert you don't use if it is the plastic type.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:24 am
Posts: 1
If you need sight inserts, Champion's Choice offers Gehmann and FWB inserts that fit 22mm globes. Their diameter is approx. 19mm.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:57 pm
Posts: 527
Location: California
Now you guys have me confused and curious.
When they say 18mm (Anschutz) or 22mm (FWB) front sight, what does that mean, if not the insert diameter?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 2274
Location: Valencia County 4-H, NM USA
GaryN wrote:
When they say 18mm (Anschutz) or 22mm (FWB) front sight, what does that mean, if not the insert diameter?

Yes, Insert diameter.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:01 am
Posts: 1
JHill,
Could you Please tell me who MT is and what sight insert card you bought that fits the front sight on the Airforce edge. I just got an Edge and would like some inserts for it.
Thank You,Bub


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:23 am
Posts: 253
Location: Colorado
MT is mtguns.com

Mac Tilton is the main guy. He has sold the gunsmithing side to Mark Chesebro at chesebrorifles.com.

The Bernard actions part of the business has been sold to Whidden Gun Works at whiddengunworks.com

Bottom line is Mac is no longer in business.


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