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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:29 am
Posts: 27
The problem: on firing, the recoil system jams in the slide open position

Issue: The 6 inch bull barrel has a top hat plug and a full length 2-piece Guide Rod. The 2 pieces apparently start to separate (minimal unscrewing) and the two pieces are not concentric so the guide rod 'captures' the spring plug, drags it rearward and the unit becomes jammed. The only way to fix it is to disassemble the pistol, pull the plug away from the guide rod, freeing up the spring and the jamming.

A simple way to visualize this is to take the guide rod and the spring plug (no spring) and see that the rod goes freely into and out of the plug, UNTIL - begin unscrewing the guide rod pieces and almost immediately the guide rod is jammed inside the plug - result - no recovery from the recoil.

I put the guide rod together with reasonable torque but firing the pistol causes the pieces to begin to unscrew - minimally, but enough to jam the recoil system.

Has anyone else had this issue with 6 inch bull barrel pistols? It looks like the guide rod is not concentric and a minor turn of the front part of the rod causes an offset from the back piece that then jams the rod in the plug.

Going to a GI spring guide fixes the weapon, but I think a better quality 2-piece guide rod is the final answer. This is a potential BE 45 but not with this guide rod problem.

Any comments (maybe a Wilson Long Guide Rod is the answer)?

gjintexas


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
Is the spring in backwards?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:29 am
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Nope. The guide rod shows scrape marks where it jams against the spring plug. It is clearly a problem with the guide rod not being concentric and that shows up as you unscrew the 2 pieces and you can feel (and see) the lack of concentricity. Everything works fine with a GI spring plug - no matter what springs I use....

Moving the rod in and out of the plug when disassembled is free until you twist the rod to unscrew the 2 pieces - than it is a Full Length Jam Rod......


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:07 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Southern California
jestep wrote:
Nope. The guide rod shows scrape marks where it jams against the spring plug. It is clearly a problem with the guide rod not being concentric and that shows up as you unscrew the 2 pieces and you can feel (and see) the lack of concentricity. Everything works fine with a GI spring plug - no matter what springs I use....

Moving the rod in and out of the plug when disassembled is free until you twist the rod to unscrew the 2 pieces - than it is a Full Length Jam Rod......


How about a little medium strength Loctite?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:29 am
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Loctite may be a solution. Blue, I suppose. It is such an unusual problem (for me at least) I wondered if it was my problem only - if not, who else found the same issue and fixed it without going to a GI spring plug. As usual, there was no solution offered by the manufacturer so it is an interesting problem and must be broader than my own inventory.

Or is this my own private hiccup with the long slide match pistols???


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:07 pm
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Location: Southern California
jestep wrote:
Or is this my own private hiccup with the long slide match pistols???


My BE 45 is a standard 5" with a two piece guide rod that regularly loosens up, pretty much every string. I simply hand tighten it after each string and go about my business. Never had a jam from it.

Dennis in the PRK


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:29 am
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Hand tighten may be the problem - but does the loosening cause the rod to jam? Your 5 inch gun is likely a bushing barrel, unlike the Bull barrel which uses a different spring plug altogether. The combination of the Bull barrel, Top Hat spring plug and out-of-center 2-piece guide rod is the combination that leads to the jamming.

Anybody else have the problem with the Bull barrel/Top Hat plug/out-of-center guide rod???

Looks like the Loctite suggestion is the solution......


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:07 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Southern California
jestep wrote:
Hand tighten may be the problem - but does the loosening cause the rod to jam? Your 5 inch gun is likely a bushing barrel, unlike the Bull barrel which uses a different spring plug altogether. The combination of the Bull barrel, Top Hat spring plug and out-of-center 2-piece guide rod is the combination that leads to the jamming.

Anybody else have the problem with the Bull barrel/Top Hat plug/out-of-center guide rod???

Looks like the Loctite suggestion is the solution......


Good point. My 5" barrel is a standard installation with a bushing. Not the same mechanics as you are trying to deal with.

Dennis in the PRK


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:44 pm
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Locktite should keep it from unscrewing, but worst case scenario, a new guide rod should only set you back about $15-20.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:48 am
Posts: 168
Location: Hamilton Square NJ
Full length recoil spring guides are worthless. A complete waste of money. All they do is take money out of your pocket and put it in the "gunsmith's" pocket. That's their primary function. They do nothing for you and you're experiencing the downside, as is every other person that replied. Many of the crunchentickers use them because they don't have a decent plug like JMB's design.

Throw that POS away and put in a GI guide and plug, the way John Browning designed it in the first place. It works and won't cause you problems.

Just my humble opinion, of course.

_________________
Norm
in beautiful, gun friendly New Jersey


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:29 am
Posts: 27
Comments have all been good - thank you all....
In the meantime, I received 2 quality long slide guide rods from Wilson. Checking them out I found they are perfectly concentric
between the 2 pieces and looking at them closely while unscrewing (separating) them, there is no hint they are not perfectly turned. In other words, they will not jam into the spring plug due to out-of-round fit.

Bottom line - if using long guide rods, these rods will NOT jam the recoil system on firing - they will just loosen, if they do anything at all. Off-shore manufacturers will hopefully take notice and fix one of the awful results of poor guide rods in their 'Match' guns.

And I do respect the opinion regarding guide rod size - I have a lot of time with the original GI guides and plugs and cannot argue their selection. If it works, use it....

Thanks again for the responses to my post - I am now a jam-free guide rod, long slide match pistol shooter:).....


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 3:21 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Gainesville, Florida
I have a 6-in Rock River that uses the same type of guide rod system and have never had a problem. I had to replace the recoil spring plug because the opening had become worn/dinged from use (mainly because the barrel bushing is very tight). Any rate, I replaced plug and guide rod with one sold by Fusion online. I've never had a problem with the system and only hand tighten; guide rod pieces never come loose.

I did experience binding with a large recoil buffer when I used the pistol for hunting. However, I stopped that because I did not want to diminish the pistol's great accuracy by feeding a diet of hunting loads. I think most of the dinging of the recoil spring plug came from using 24 to 28-lb recoil springs for the hotter loads (I had to use a King heavy duty bushing wrench). A recoil buffer is not necessary with bullseye loads and reduced power recoil springs. dipnet


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