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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:04 pm
Posts: 72
Have a Pristine 1975 Victor that doesn't like CCI SV ammo. No dry-fire ding, and the pistol might have a few boxes of ammo through it. Brand new Wolff spring kit and all springs replaced. (5.5 lb. recoil spring)
Bought the $32 HS Mag tool and adjusted all mags perfectly.
Chamber was cleaned well & Flitz polished and still CCI SV rounds (out of a brand new production case) won't chamber without having to push them in. Maybe 5 rounds out of a whole box of 50 Plunk right in and out, but the other 45 rounds drop in like the top pic. They go in, but it's enough to jam the gun once about every magazine. Federal Auto Match and others just Plunk right in and fall out, every time, and this pistol runs like a Swiss Watch on the Fed. AM ammo. However, the pistol jams regularly with the CCI SV. This also happens with some older Eley Pistol Match ammo I have. Guess I'm at a crossroads... Enlarge the chamber or shoot Federal. Must confess I really don't feel comfortable enlarging the chamber, unless there's some miracle technique I haven't heard of. Kinda miffed as I just bought a 5K case of CCI under recommendations that it's the ammo of choice for this pistol. I have other pistols that digest it fine, but had high hopes for this..CCI SV in top pic, Federal Auto Match below.
Anyone else ever run into this issue? Would love some good advice.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 407
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings,

CCI SV has always been a favorite of mine.

Sadly, quality control at CCI has lapsed.

Quite often, the bullets get too much lube and do not chamber.

I have two lots of CCI SV separated by one number on the lot. One lot chambers fine, the other lot does not.

If you bought a full case of ammo, contact CCI Customer Service and explain the situation. In the past, they have offered to replace the ammo.

By the way, the 4 1/2" Victor is a very nicely balanced pistol.

Cheers,

Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:28 pm
Posts: 958
Location: Indiana
If I were you I'd see if this ammo does this in another quality .22 target pistol. If that is the case, then it's the ammo and use it for plinking. One thing I've noticed is that Hi-Standards do have a tendency to get a build-up of lead at the throat. There used to be a National Guard armorer who'd carefully use a match .22 reamer to clean out this leading from Hi-Standards. He would do this at the gunsmith trailer at the Frank Bickar Memorial Regional at Canton-McKinley and Camp Perry.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:36 pm
Posts: 139
OK, before you go off the deep end here and start gunsmithing or sending this pistol out, just step back for a minute.

First off, .22 target pistols and women have lot in common. Just because you like them does not mean they like you. Just because somebody says this is what she wants (even on the internet) does not mean that is what she really wants.

Anyway, buying ammo for a gun because somebody on the internet says its the best for that type is not exactly the best way to approach this. As a matter of fact, recommending any specific type of .22 for any random pistol is pretty much a crap shoot.

Get some (even a lot) different, quality ammo of various types and try them out. You just might have a 100% reliable, 0.5 inch gun there with some other type of ammo. Do not mess up the gun in an effort to get it to shoot a certain ammo unless it really, really, really groups that ammo well. Find out what she wants, then buy it. Do not start modifying the gun until it is a LAST resort. You can always find different ammo and different lots, there's only one gun that matters and that's yours.

I'm not going to recommend anything specific, but most .22's from the 60's and 70's tend to function better (not necessarily group better, but sometimes yes) with ammo / bullet that mimics the profile of the old Remington Target ammo. Remember, that's what most .22 ammo looked like back then. Think SKB / Wolf now, not CCI with all that wax and longer nose. Eley can be great or just so so, especially in the reliability department too. You just have to try and see.

Anyway, just some advise. Same price as anything else on the internet.

CR


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4898
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Take fc60's advice. At least buy a blue box of this ammo to try, but you should have no trouble selling the case of ammo you have.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Va
Perhaps the chamber on this pistol is a little on the tight side. I have had some issues with CCI SV feeding in my Pardini, but it is related to length and the bullet coming up out of the magazine, not chambering all the way which indicates a diameter issue. It would be interesting to take a casting of this chamber and compare it to a chamber casting of a pistol that does not have this same problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Wisconsin
CR10X wrote:
OK, before you go off the deep end here and start gunsmithing or sending this pistol out, just step back for a minute.

First off, .22 target pistols and women have lot in common. Just because you like them does not mean they like you. Just because somebody says this is what she wants (even on the internet) does not mean that is what she really wants.

Anyway, buying ammo for a gun because somebody on the internet says its the best for that type is not exactly the best way to approach this. As a matter of fact, recommending any specific type of .22 for any random pistol is pretty much a crap shoot.

Get some (even a lot) different, quality ammo of various types and try them out. You just might have a 100% reliable, 0.5 inch gun there with some other type of ammo. Do not mess up the gun in an effort to get it to shoot a certain ammo unless it really, really, really groups that ammo well. Find out what she wants, then buy it. Do not start modifying the gun until it is a LAST resort. You can always find different ammo and different lots, there's only one gun that matters and that's yours.

I'm not going to recommend anything specific, but most .22's from the 60's and 70's tend to function better (not necessarily group better, but sometimes yes) with ammo / bullet that mimics the profile of the old Remington Target ammo. Remember, that's what most .22 ammo looked like back then. Think SKB / Wolf now, not CCI with all that wax and longer nose. Eley can be great or just so so, especially in the reliability department too. You just have to try and see.

Anyway, just some advise. Same price as anything else on the internet.

CR


He has a way with words :-). But he is right. +1

Chip


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Va
I am not suggesting starting to manufacture metal chips, only trying to discover what the actual problem is...something perhaps other than the ammo being a little fat to the point of being out of spec.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:04 pm
Posts: 72
I'm not a fan of altering the pistol to shoot the ammo. Also the fact that 10 percent of the new CCI SV rounds pass the Plunk test leads me to agree with fc60. It's pointing to an ammo quality issue. To what CR10x said, I do have a 5K case of old Remington 40 gr. Target squirreled away. Was saving it for a special occasion, and I would think this qualifies.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Va
Before altering the barrel of this fine old model I would have a new barrel made for it if you decide this is justified...perhaps a little longer but that is just a matter of balance preference.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 407
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings,

All this has brought back a memory from the past.

Jimmy Dorsey, a National Level shooter from the late 70's and early 80's, performed the "plunk" test before each big match.

He would verify visually that each round would drop into the barrel.

Back then, he was probably shooting Eley TENEX and he still verified his ammo.

So, a lot of work; but, drop test the ammo and save it for matches. Use the ones that fail for practice.

Curiosity made me measure a couple of High Standards in the Mann Kave. They all have MINIMUM chambers and as a result will be fussy about ammo with too much grease/lube.

Otherwise, CCI SV generally shoots 10-X groups at 50 yards. So does Eley TENEX.

If yours is a old Hamden High Standard, I would not consider altering the chamber.

Scrounge a box of 50 of different brands of target ammo from your fellow shooters. You will be amazed at the variation in functioning.

Cheers,

Dave


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4898
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Once upon a time, I strapped a frame into a Ransom Rest and tested four different barrels with as many brands of ammo as I could easily acquire.

The result: one brand would not work in one barrel, another was erratic in functioning (with one barrel), accuracy varied considerably from barrel to barrel.

I ended up using Winchester T22 in my long barrel and Ely Club in my short barrel. My friend's barrels used two other brands of ammo.

YOUR end result.....?????


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:34 pm
Posts: 94
I have a High Standard Supermatic 107 and shoot CCI SV almost exclusively, and have not had any problems with feeding. I would also suggest making sure the chamber is clean of carbon buildup. Perhaps someone has been shooting shorts through it?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:04 pm
Posts: 72
Thanks Mikey. The pistol came to me in like new condition and had only a box or two of ammo through it, ever. First thing I did was scrub the chamber. Absolutely pristine, then I polished it with Flitz wax and did a thorough examination. Chamber and rifling look to be in brand new condition with absolutely no contamination on any surface.
10% of the CCI SV passes the Plunk test, the rest of the rounds get hung up like the pic. I'm writing this off as crappy ammo, since other ammo works perfectly, every time. Can't wait to try the old Remington 22.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 190
My first target pistol was a HS Victor. CCI SV also would not chamber in my pistol either. AT that time, I was using Remington Eley Match and it functioned perfect and was an X ring gun at 50 yards with that ammo. I didn't ransom rest it, but it was as accurate as my new Pardini at that time.

I had to do what was suggested by many at that time, which was find an ammo that works in that particular gun. Just because this Remington Eley Match worked in my Hamden HS Victor, does not mean it will for others. These 22's can be fussy.

Because this Remington Eley Match worked so well for me, I suspect that the Eley brands of ammo all would have, but who knows. This is the EPS shaped projectile.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Va
Referring to CCI as crappy ammo may be a little harsh because after all, LOTS of shooters are using it with excellent results. I dare say that you cannot find anything out there in the same price range that shoots more accurately on a regular basis. As stated earlier, my Pardini can be a little particular about it at times, but my Marvel conversion is extremely reliable/accurate with CCI SV. So consider this...since your HS factory barrel will not reliably digest CCI SV due to the chamber being snug, you might come out ahead in terms of money spent on ammo to have a new barrel made for it and chambered to work with CCI. I do not know how much the lower grades of Eley ammo cost, or how hard they are to find, but just because CCI SV doesn't reliably pass the "plunk test" does not mean they will not chamber during cycling. This ammo may make you a little nervous for match use, and I get it, but it might be great for slow fire and/or practice.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:08 pm
Posts: 42
Tried CCI SV in my Toz; it often had to be pushed in from about half way seated. Doesn't normally eject well.

Wolf seats much further, ejection varies. Aguila (something or other - I lost track of all their different ammo) seats nearly all the way and ejects well about 95% of the time.

Try different ammo (read somewhere that European 22 has a slightly smaller diameter than US stuff, and my limited comparison bears that out - might try some of that stuff first.)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 4898
Location: Scottsdale AZ
"Tried CCI SV in my Toz; it often had to be pushed in from about half way seated. Doesn't normally eject well. "

I see exactly the same thing in MY TOZ. I always force the round into the chamber and close the action. If I eject it, it will always rechamber easily, telling me it's the waxy lube that's the problem. If I have ejection problems, I use a bent bore brush in the chamber maybe once during a match.

I find the CCI extremely reliable in my S&W M41, and accurate in my TOZ. It's cheap and readily available, so CCI Standard is the only brand of .22 I use. YMMV


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Va
Due to the free pistols being single shot and having true match chambers with the bullet being engraved by the lands, I can imagine that the CCI would be difficult to chamber to say the least. Once upon a time I had a lot of R50 that grouped great but it made my thumb sore from pushing it into the chamber and it did not eject well, which was irritating during a match.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:46 am
Posts: 84
Location: Illinois
I have the same problem with my Hamden HS even with a replacement LSP barrel. Use to shoot CCI SV all the time but I have 2 new cases of different lots that will chamber only 1/2 way in either barrel. Can't get by a NM course without an alibi. My HS will chamber Wolf, SK, Eley and RWS and plunk test fine 100% of the time. The CCI SV even after wiping off the excess wax will NOT plunk and my results are about like yours, 10% pass (maybe).

Easy enough, I just stopped using CCI SV in the pistol.


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