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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:54 am 
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal
SlartyBartFast wrote:
Funny, there is such a target....

Read ISSF rule 6.3 TARGETS AND TARGET STANDARDS

http://www.issf-sports.org/documents/ru ... nt-ENG.pdf

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:20 am 
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rmca wrote:
SlartyBartFast wrote:
Funny, there is such a target....

Read ISSF rule 6.3 TARGETS AND TARGET STANDARDS

http://www.issf-sports.org/documents/ru ... nt-ENG.pdf

Hope this helps


Guess what. Not all clubs have 25m ranges. Yet these clubs still manage to hold ISSF style competition.

They're just not ISSF sanctioned for international level competition. You going to tell me that if I can't find a 25m range on which to use 25m targets that I and everyone else is just out of luck?

Take your complaint to the ISSF, the Canadian Shooting Federation, and the Canadian Olympic Committee. And all the other national associations that organise competitions and shooting development programs using targets scaled for distances other than full official international range standards (Both the SFC and USAS licence 50ft targets as well). And every target supplier that sells reduced targets for all disciplines for use at shorter ranges.

Or perhaps you can pay the cityhall courthouse where my club range is located to fully renovate their basement level to extend our range so that we can use targets more acceptable to your sensibilities.

I personally couldn't care less about pedantic and myopic reading of a rulebook. Whether you personally want to accept that these targets and shorter ranges exist or not, they do. The club I belong to is shooting on properly scaled and sanctioned targets.

If you really want to be helpful and have some suggestions about my trigger issue, I'm all ears.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:57 am 
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dude, take a chill pill...

This was not to put you down...
It was just so that others aren't miss guided about the sanctioned distances.
If you practice or compete on a 20yrd target, good for you.

Hope THIS helps


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:09 pm 
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rmca wrote:
dude, take a chill pill...

This was not to put you down...
It was just so that others aren't miss guided about the sanctioned distances.
If you practice or compete on a 20yrd target, good for you.

Hope THIS helps


Again. 20yds is a sanctionned distance. USAS sanctions 50ft. If it was all about others not being "misguided" you could polish your communication skills (or maybe judging by your location it's a language translation issue) and not argue that something that clearly does exist doesn't.

In terms of being polite, you might refrain from telling me to take a chill pill and simply acknowledge the miscommunication on your part.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Location: B.E. Master indoor & out in WI
SlartyBartFast;

Are you using the CCT 73, 20yd ISSF target ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:01 pm 
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SlartyBartFast wrote:
If it was all about others not being "misguided" you could polish your communication skills (or maybe judging by your location it's a language translation issue) and not argue that something that clearly does exist doesn't.

In terms of being polite, you might refrain from telling me to take a chill pill and simply acknowledge the miscommunication on your part.

We obviously started on the wrong foot here... but don't assume that because you can't write in Portuguese, that I can't write in English!
I'm very proud of my nationality and I don't admit that kind of moral judgement!

Second, you claimed that the target was a 20 yrd ISSF target. ISSF doesn't have any discipline shot at that distance. Period.
Don't believe me? Check the rule book! That's why I provided you with the link and the rule number...

That doesn't mean that there can't be adjustments made by each country/federation to better suit their local facilities. I never argued that... Just don't call it simply "ISSF", because it's misleading...

Putting this behind, and if you are seriously trying to evolve in this sport, I advise you to take up air pistol also.
It's a much better way to develop your skills than just .22s, and your scores on both will improve faster.
A target grip for your current pistol is also a good idea and will help you improve.

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:15 am 
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rmca wrote:
We obviously started on the wrong foot here... but don't assume that because you can't write in Portuguese, that I can't write in English!


Now who's jumping to conclusions. One I didn't blame. Translation, culture, attitude, and personality can all cause a message to be garbled and misunderstood.

Two, a judgement on communication skills is not a "moral" issue.

You still seem hell bent to be right and are rather insultingly inferring that I don't know the rule books. I've already responded and still you harp on.

I've tried to extend a hand, you still seem to be bent on keeping discussion on the wrong foot.

As for air pistol, I have no intention of taking up another discipline at this time. I want to fix the issue with my .22 pistol trigger.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:13 am 
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SlartyBartFast wrote:
So, now I've shot the pistol with the TandemKross trigger.
One issue seems to be the trigger/sear mechanism doesn't always seem to reset after last round fired. On first round of a magazine sometimes the trigger seems soft as if the safety is on. Pulling fully a releasing I can feel the click of the reset and then everything works fine.


Sounds like the pre-travel screws, If its not, I'd give Tandenkross a call. They generally have very good service.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:51 am 
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Gregbenner wrote:
SlartyBartFast wrote:
So, now I've shot the pistol with the TandemKross trigger.
One issue seems to be the trigger/sear mechanism doesn't always seem to reset after last round fired. On first round of a magazine sometimes the trigger seems soft as if the safety is on. Pulling fully a releasing I can feel the click of the reset and then everything works fine.


Sounds like the pre-travel screws, If its not, I'd give Tandenkross a call. They generally have very good service.


Yeah, that was initially the problem when the pistol failed to reset occasionally while mid-magazine.

But now the pre-travel screw is essentially backed out fully and not being of any use. And the problem is only on the first shot after putting in the magazine.

I'm thinking that maybe I bent the magazine disconnect and that's getting jammed up and not disengaging correctly when a new magazine is inserted. It didn't seem to remove or install as easy as it is shown on the Tandemkross video or any of the other online disassembly and assembly videos that I've watched.

Maybe I've answered my own question. I'll remove the disconnect before my next session at the range and see if that solves the issue. But then I'll have to figure out how to put it back and have it functional.

Or before that, I'll have a close look at how the mechanism is working with the grips and upper off.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:27 am 
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C. Perkins wrote:
SlartyBartFast;

Are you using the CCT 73, 20yd ISSF target ?


Sorry I missed your post.

I think the #73 target is the centre repair patch for the #72 target.
(SFC 20yd Pistol (ISSF), http://www.targetshootingapp.com/wiki/S ... isciplines)

Gave that link because the sfc-ftc website seems to be garbage. The webstore has been non-functional for months (and I've emailed them a couple of times about it).

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:38 am 
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SBF, FWIW, the magazine disconnect was the only thing I was able to do myself, without screwing it up (lol). I seem to remember Jon indicating there was something he didn't like about the drop in parts, and he either changed or didn't use something. Not suggesting anything wrong with the TK kit, likely just LGS preference. Assuming the mag release might be the issue(?) is there any particular reason not to just leave it out? Lots of folks do that, although definitely personal preference. (actually i don't know now if mine is in or out)). Are you still having occasional issues with the safety?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:58 am 
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My Ruger did something similar when I installed new grips (different problem then the one I talked about before in this thread). Turned out that it was a mainspring and trigger connection set of issues. Once I realigned the parts it operated normally. You might want to dive back in and make sure that everything is correctly aligned.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:04 am 
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Well, I'd rather keep the magazine disconnect in. I have no need to be able to fire the pistol without a magazine and a round chambered, and I don't want it to either.

As for the safety, I'm developing my shooting routine. I now take my stance, pick up the pistol with my shooting hand, then place it properly in my shooting hand with my non-shooting hand, then with my non-shooting hand press the bolt-release and push the safety down.

That eliminates the surprise safety engagement.

If I shift my thumb around, my knuckle can occasionally knock the safety up and engage it. But everytime I need to change my grip I'm making myself take the pistol from the top in my non-shooting hand to place it in my shooting hand and repeating the push release, push safety, breath, relax, look down range, bring pistol to target routine.

So I've been caught trying to shoot with the safety on, but it's because I've rushed and not followed my process.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:07 am 
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Chia wrote:
My Ruger did something similar when I installed new grips (different problem then the one I talked about before in this thread). Turned out that it was a mainspring and trigger connection set of issues. Once I realigned the parts it operated normally. You might want to dive back in and make sure that everything is correctly aligned.


Thanks Chia, I'm going to be dry-firing with the upper off sometime during the following week to see how everything is aligned and working.

I suspect that bending the magazine disconnect may have resulted in the disconnect hanging up on the trigger bar or disconnect spring rubbing on the inside of the grip.

Won't know definitively if any fix works until next Friday when I can get to the range again. But I should be able to be fairly certain if I can replicate the problem with upper off and while dry firing that way.

_________________
Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:37 am 
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7 days later and no email contact from the Tandemkross technician.

I took the pistol apart for cleaning and examined the workings closely.

With a magazine in, hammer cocked, and safety engaged, pulling and releasing the trigger resulted in the trigger bar moving back and forth freely.

Removing the magazine, and disengaging the safety, pulling and releasing the trigger resulted in the trigger bar moving forward once and remaining forward.

When the magazine was reinserted, pulling and releasing the trigger resulted in the trigger bar moving a little and then jumping to what is obviously the reset position.

To isolate the issue, I then removed the magazine disconnect. I thought that perhaps I had bent it while removing and installing it for the trigger install. Thing to note is that removing and installing the disconnect seems much more difficult than what I see on various videos of people doing it.

With the disconnect removed, magazines still drop out freely and quickly. As long as I don't impede the fall of the magazine or manipulate it until it is quite a ways out. If I do, it seems to jams up on something. This happens with the disconnect installed as well.

Without the disconnect, and with magazine removed, trigger bar moves freely back and forth.

With a magazine installed, it seems to occasionally slow down or get hung up moving back again.

It seems to me the problem is that the trigger bar is in contact with the frame over a large part of its right side. And with the spacer included with the trigger is very tightly held between the trigger and frame.

Add to that, unlike the original trigger, there is no solid mechanical connection between the trigger and the trigger bar.

The trigger positively pulls the bar forward by the back of the trigger cutout and the pin on the trigger bar, but does little to nothing to move the bar backwards when the trigger is released. The modified mechanism seems to rely on gravity at the back and a wishful push from the plunger and spring in the trigger. Add a little friction at the front from being held between the trigger and frame and maybe along the side and it occasionally needs a little wiggle of the trigger and trigger bar for the bar to reset.

Might be an issue with the thickness of the Kryptec coating affecting the tolerances.

Maybe polishing the sides of the trigger bar at the trigger end on both the trigger and frame sides and along the length on the side that seems to contact the frame.

Or to begin with, perhaps a spray cleaner/degreaser to make sure there's nothing between the trigger bar and frame.

But from a design standpoint, it seems to me the trigger bar pin to trigger slot fit is too sloppy and the trigger needs to have some positive engagement to pull the trigger bar forward when the trigger is pushed forward by the trigger detent spring.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:00 pm 
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SlartyBartFast wrote:
7 days later and no email contact from the Tandemkross technician.


Just fyi, when I had an issue I called, actually twice, and then got an immediate response. Emails seem to get misplaced. It seems like you are tracing your issue down, but if you aren't successful you might try calling and mentioning you have sent an email with no response. Hard to believe you are the only one with this issue.

On mine, I found the issue with the safety to be the small spring, in combination with aftermarket grips, was coming loose. In my case, an easy fix.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Gregbenner wrote:
Just fyi, when I had an issue I called, actually twice, and then got an immediate response.


I'm not too worried about the email. I'm delinquent in following up too.

The only evenings that haven't been work or family intensive have been night I've gone to the range. And can't have my firearm near me or make long distance calls during the workday.

Cleaning and troubleshooting on the pistol was done late at night.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:22 am 
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So, an update.

Tandemkross technician replied to me, and my analysis was spot on. The trigger needs to have a mechanism to engage the trigger bar pin and push it back as the trigger returns forward.

Tandemkross already has a new version of the trigger that has a vertical setscrew that installs forward of the pin when the trigger is in place.

They've offered to send me a new one, but I have to wait if I want a black one as they are out of stock. I was given the option of getting a more expensive green or red trigger or a same priced silver trigger immediately. But I just don't think those colours match the gun. And as I am still shooting personal best scores despite the mental interruptions from the reset failures I figure I can wait.

The issue that I have is that I'm not comfortable with the threads of a setscrew wearing on the pin. Probably irrelevant, but I just don't like the design.

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Smith & Wesson SW22 Victory - Kryptek Camouflage
- Tandemkross Halo charging ring.
- Tandemkross Victory trigger.


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