TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:20 pm
Posts: 5095
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Back in the day I would make light pistol hunting loads by seating bullets of different shapes BACKWARDS in the case for a "wadcutter" that reduced airspace in the case for better powder burning.

It would cost you nothing to give that a try.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
Hi Pistol champ,
You mentioned you couldn't get accuracy with a hollow base, I swaged my first 65grn swc yesterday and first impression was, it was very short compared to it's diameter. Maybe adjusting the bearing surface length even though it will end up heavier, may lead to better accuracy.
I have a S&W model 31 customised to suit ISSF centre fire so it is a good test gun for various weights and bearing length in search of accuracy.
Cheers


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
Hi Shootaholic,

Sorry if I mislead you. I could not get good accuracy with pure lead wire when I made hollow base bullets. When I use a harder alloy I get good results. The hollow base give a little more bearing surface that a flat base and when using a hollow point with a hollow base I get the longest bearing surface for any given weight. I shoot a bullet that is 0.3148" diameter so it does not slip on the rifling.
I also do not get leading with this size.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 592
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
It is quite possible that you can't get accuracy with a softer bullet because it is getting squeezed from the brass being too tight. Pull a soft and hard bullet from a case with an inertia puller and see if the one is smaller. Of course, the softer the bullet is, the more important the exact size expander is. I also think it might be even more important because of the small diameter cases we are dealing with. The stiffness of a case has to do as much with the diameter as it does with the thickness of the case. A really large case made the same thickness as a 32 ACP would be flimsy in comparison.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
Hi Old Caster,

I do not use an expander. I have a series of custom made sizing dies in 0.001" increments
that I match the bullet size to the brass case. Thicker brass case bigger sizing die.

I do not use an expander because I observed that most cases are not uniform in
thickness and strength from one side to the other and the expander expands the case more
on the weaker side making the bullet center line offset from the case's center line.

I'm assuming the skirt of the bullet deformed unevenly when exiting the barrel
making the filers. Same alloy with a flat base shot great. It wasn't until the alloy got
hard enough that both hollow base and flat base performed the same. Yes you are
correct that a soft bullet will be swaged down in a "tight" case.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
I sleeved up my Dillon expander to .315 and still find a 98grn HBWC a bit firm to seat. I expect the case springs back after expanding and powder charge drop. The 65grn pills can be pushed almost to full seat, being shorter. I pulled one to check if there is any squashing going on but the as swaged diam is still the same.
After test firing a round in my .32 revolver, I noticed the primer backed out a little due to low pressure. Does this happen in your 32acp Pardini's.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 592
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
pistol champ wrote:
Hi Old Caster,

I do not use an expander because I observed that most cases are not uniform in
thickness and strength from one side to the other and the expander expands the case more
on the weaker side making the bullet center line offset from the case's center line.



Noticing the same effect that you did I got the idea to cherry pick my cases and only use those that bulged evenly. This didn't work because some that didn't bulge the first time did the next time and I got no difference in group size. I think the loaded bullets center on the front of the case anyway since it is the biggest and the back is not centered which is not good but maybe not as bad as it seems. When I look where the firing pin hit the primer I can't definitively say that it is not in the center.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
shootaholic wrote:
After test firing a round in my .32 revolver, I noticed the primer backed out a little due to low pressure. Does this happen in your 32acp Pardini's.


Never had any primers backing out even when trying really light loads. I use both Federal and Winchester primers.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:39 am
Posts: 32
Location: South Australia
I will get Federals backing out of Lapua cases in my 32 S&W GSP.
I guess it will depend on how tight the primer pockets are and flash hole size. This would vary from brand to brand.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
Can anyone help me with attaching digi pics to a post, FC60 asked for pics of my progress with re sleeving a Hammerli 280 barrel.
Cheers


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 947
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
shootaholic wrote:
Can anyone help me with attaching digi pics to a post, FC60 asked for pics of my progress with re sleeving a Hammerli 280 barrel.
Cheers

Check this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38692

Hope this helps


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
Hi rmca,
Thanks for your help, judging by the number of responses on the link I'm not the only one needing help.
regards


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:13 pm
Posts: 97
I saw someone ask about winning Perry CF with .32. Can't vouch for that but thought I'd share this. I dug through box of scores because I remember a high grand aggregate in 2670's. December 89 in San Diego, Darius Young shot 895-53 (2674 grand agg) for CF match with .32 long. I'm pretty sure it was with GSP.
Jon


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am
Posts: 12
Gentleman,

I would like to ask where I can get bigger expander plug for expander die.....using Lee dies for .32SW long and my bore is .313 so I wanna use lead .314 bullets but the standart plug is about .3125 on the place where started to be conical for doing the bell.

Thanks

James


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
Find a competent machinist and ask him to make you a new one to your dimensions, but ask him to make it longer so as to expand the case to match the length of your projectile. This will prevent a possibly soft projectile getting squashed to under size at the base.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 78
Apologies if this has been discussed (I scanned the thread and did a quick forum search and came up blank...). I recently acquired a 32acp conversion for one of my frames and as my SDB does not support 32acp, I plumped for a 650. As an aside... Dillon supplied Redding dies and I had trouble with the seat/crimp die so that I had to resize the round after crimping. It turns out Redding make a 32acp PRO (for progrssive) die set and that works like a charm (why Dillon sell the other set with a progressive press bemuses me - maybe they have a ton in stock....). After chatting with Dipnet and Oldcaster I have been working 'the classic' acp load.... OAL 0.885, 0.325 crimp (now that I have the crimp die.... ), T&B 62 gr bullets, 1.6gr VV310, starline brass and Winchester small primers for standard loads. I am starting to get the system dialled in and things are progressing nicely..... However.... I had a strange 'squib', basically the powder didn't go off. The primer pushed the bullet into the rifling and left the case chambered to my surprise, the vv310 was all over the bolt / barrel when I took it apart (to get the bullet out. The round chambered OK so it had been crimped.

Has anyone else had a similar problem with the 32acp? If so any advice?

My thoughts are to use Small Pistol for standard and magnum loads (more ooomph?). Any favourite 'hot' primers out there?

Any input gratefully received

~Zip


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 592
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
I have never had a squib in anything that still had powder in it except shotgun. With the shotgun, it is easy to pick up your hulls and inadvertently pick up one of someone else's that has laid there several days and is wet. That seems pretty unlikely for a 32 but not impossible. I have experimented with all kinds of primers in the 32 including rifle primers and sometimes think it makes a difference and later am not so sure. I doubt your primer was too weak and expect moisture since it only happened once but it can't just be high humidity but a drop of water in the case. I have a feeling that you will never figure out where it came from and also doubt it will ever happen again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 78
Water is highly unlikely, (unfired) cases dropped from a feeder and powder only in the funnel for the duration of the loading and all the powder was dry - plays on the mind though.... I am minded to try a few 1000 rounds of magnum-load primers and see what happens....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 592
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Whatever it is, I think it is way out of the ordinary unless others have also had squib loads and haven't mentioned it. I doubt seriously if it was because of a weak primer specifically because the powder charge is so small. If it ever happens again, try to immediately ignite the powder that is left with a match to see if it will burn.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 78
(slightly drifting off topic for a single post look upon it as 'show and tell' if you feel inclined...). The only knowing round I shot with water affecting the charge, was last year. My father passed his 1844 Stürmer target pistol to me (once owned by the Maharaja Bahadur of the Benaries whose family still lives in Fort Ramnagar near Varanashi), it is .50, set trigger and, of course, a percussion muzzle loader.

It is extremely accurate and after deciding to shoot comps with it, I had to swab the bore between shots (as it is one of a pair, shooting without it's brother necessitates cleaning) as black powder fouls the bore in a few shots (think knuckleball). I had to adopt swabbing and got too enthusiastic with the suds (Dawn is (apparently) the soap of choice in the BP world). Practicing one day, a shot barely made it out of the barrel and it hit the ground mid-way to the target (ISSF 25m Standard Pistol & CF/SP precision). However - like a yorker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorker it bounced up and tore a ragged hole through the 10. Remarkable. The 'Maharaja' is a fine pistol, and interestingly, the design and ergonomics are very 'modern'.

I struggled a bit (shooting using an upright grip) - but I suspect that the geometry of modern ( 1911) requires the magazine to feed rounds at a stiff angle through the grip and we all get used to 'the angle of choice'. Without thinking I gripped the Maharaja like my SP - perfect alignment! Wrist cocked forward,trigger moved into position and the sights right above my forearm. Wow - Earnst Stürmer had it all worked out (because he did not have to solve the magazine problem and worked with anatomy!).

OK 'show-and-tell' over - I will press up some more rounds with the Win primers and see what happens... (in reserve... S&B followed with Win magnum primers....). will report back with velocity info...

~Zip


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