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A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Emmett, If you are young and are into shooting get the 550. The cost isn't that much higher because with a single stage press, you still have to buy a powder dropper. You may wonder why you have a single stage press and powder dropper in the future and the 550 doesn't lose much of its value no matter how much it is used.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
Thanks for all the good info. I'm not a volume shooter. I am more of a consistent practicer constantly striving for improvement. I grew up shooting junior NRA and have always preferred the zen-like target shooting from the line whether it is rifle or handgun. I just recently started getting involved in 2700 matches. I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with that, although it is a good way to interact and exchange ideas with others with the same interests. I prefer to go with a Forster reloader for precision but since I still have to work and fix things around the house, my available time is limited, and consequently, I am looking at a Dillon as a compromise between home and hobby. I don't ever see myself trying to produce a thousand rounds an hour with an ammo plant. I'm not that type of shooter. I prefer precision, accurate shooting, not shooting from a horse, or while running, or anything resembling 3-gun. So, that's a long winded background to what I'm thinking. I might still get the Forster.
By the way, I have not heard back from Redding, Lee, or Lyman about the custom die request I sent them. There are setup fees, but the dies don't sound too terribly expensive. The tough thing is to get them to tell me if they already have a custom .32 die setup already in place. Trying to get them to talk specific dimensions is tough. If I make any progress I'll report back.
Thanks for all the .32 talk. If it wasn't for this thread I probably would have left the Pardini .32 acp for a bullseye 9mm.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 76
Hi Emmett,

I recently angsted over a press for 32acp. I used a couple of Square Deal Bs which use bespoke Dillon Dies and they do not supply 32acp dies - so I had to buy a new one.

I decided to go for the 650, it has flexibility with the extra position (maybe a Mr Bullet feeder in my future for 45 or 9mm or a separate expander die). Also, the 550 does not 'auto index' which for me - kind of defeats the purpose of a progressive press (especially with a case feeder)

I had a strange experience with the dies though - Dillon sell the 32acp Redding dies (in lieu of theirs) but they sold me the standard 32acp (with a combo seater / crimper die) as well as a powder dropper which you don't use. What you need is the Redding 32acp PRO dies (PRO for progressive) and use the Dillon dropper. I sent the dies back to Dillon and bought the PRO dies elsewhere. I asked them why not sell the PRO dies - no real answer... I guess have the others in stock.....

As the 32acp has a light powder load - I use the 'Arrondo'? ultralight slide (which I bought from uniquetec) which has a micrometer to control the measure (they are very good) and the machined tool holder which screws down to the press (instead of just pins) for extra consistency.

The 650 has a much more robust primer system (when compared with the SDB) but I bought the extended primer catcher (from uniquetec again) as unused primers can bounce onto the floor.

Even though they can crank out lots of rounds; I use mine for smaller runs (especially as I don't feel I have dialled in the 32acp load) but using the T&B, vv310 (off a bag) I hold the X @25 and 10 @ 50 and once I set up the Ransom (Random to fc60!) Rest, I will get a more accurate measure.

In summary... An expensive option but it is very flexible for other calibres, is very well built, cranks out repeatable rounds and holds its value for when you want to unload it. You will want to do minimum runs of 2-300 rounds once you have sorted out a load and I prefer to shoot or do other things rather than zen out with a single stage press for hours (zenning out for a shorter time with the 650...)

As a modifier... there is a human tendency for people to recommend the course of action they took (which reinforces their decision) but I try to look critically at the process (and I factored in reloading when I bought the conversion) and the 650 works for me and is a very solid and pleasingly robust piece of kit. You can drop most of the extras but I would buy the Arrondo Powderslide

As an aside... on a completely different and (vaguely humorous) topic. I have recently moved and am having to do quite a lot of construction at the new place, including building things (like partition walls, sheds, coops, studios and firing points and not enough shooting at the moment....) needing a framing nailer (cue more angsting) and decided on a Paslode cordless (it is a gas powered nailer which squirts a butene - propane mix into a chamber to propel the nail into the frame) As I tested it in Home Depot, I found myself gripping and re-gripping the gun for optimal trigger position and alignment. Sad but true..


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 407
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings,

For loading small capacity cases, like the 32 ACP, I use a Star.

Excellent uniformity of powder drops.

Also, the Star Machine Works will do their best to supply the proper sizing and expanding dies tailored to your reloading components.

http://www.starmachineworks.com/

Cheers,

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 211
I've been reading through this thread as I'm considering purchasing a Pardini 32acp. Honestly I'm a bit on the fence as sounds like some of you guys have gone through a lot of work trying to get them to shoot right.

Typically I shoot lead in my 45 but have no issues going with JHP for the 32 if it makes loading easier. So if I'm content paying for the Hornady 60 grain JHP bullets will that be substantially easier than trying to make lead work? Will that eliminate having to experiment with specialized expander?

Basically can I get the Pardini 32acp, Hornady 60 grain XTP bullets, starline brass and a set of off the shelf dies and be good to go?


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:44 pm
Posts: 482
zanemoseley wrote:
I've been reading through this thread as I'm considering purchasing a Pardini 32acp. Honestly I'm a bit on the fence as sounds like some of you guys have gone through a lot of work trying to get them to shoot right.

Typically I shoot lead in my 45 but have no issues going with JHP for the 32 if it makes loading easier. So if I'm content paying for the Hornady 60 grain JHP bullets will that be substantially easier than trying to make lead work? Will that eliminate having to experiment with specialized expander?

Basically can I get the Pardini 32acp, Hornady 60 grain XTP bullets, starline brass and a set of off the shelf dies and be good to go?

Probably need a Uniquetek Micrometer Powder Bar too, for the small loads. - http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1267


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 211
I don't have a Dillon, I have a Hornady LNL however I would probably opt to hand load with my RCBS RockChucker so I can leave my LNL set up for .45. I would imagine due to cost I won't practice much with the .32acp, probably stick to the .22 and practice with my 1911/.45.

I have a RCBS chargemaster which meters powder well but that could take a while. I have a standard RCBS powder drop but it probably wouldn't be as accurate either.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Zane, If you are going with the lead in the 32 ACP I would go through the trouble to find someone with a lathe that will make the expander for you. I think a Dillon powder dispenser with a Unique Tek bar will work on your RCBS if it will fit in the space. It could expand for you and you would have to flip the measure yourself but no matter what measure you use it will be necessary to hand flip it.

Shooting a 32 ACP is about as cheap as it gets because basically your only expense after you have the equipment is the primer. When you load around 1.5 grains of powder a pound will do near 5000 and the lead can be mined from any range where people shoot lead. Lube for a 32 is quite cheap because it hardly uses any. When you mold bullets from a 5 cavity mold like we use, it doesn't take long to make a bunch of them since every pound makes over a hundred. People have used T&B bullets with pretty good success and are probably good enough. I have better results with my own cast bullets compared to jacketed but then I did not try a bunch of loads with jacketed and I did with lead. If I improved anymore from what I can hand load now, I cant see where it would matter.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Eastern PA
I also shoot lead and get better groups than with the 60gr XTP. You will need that custom expander
or a custom sizing die. I use a custom sizing die and do not need the expander. This gun is accurate,
and cheaper to shoot than 22's.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 211
I guess what I'm getting at is can I work up a load with off the shelf dies, brass and jhp bullets that will perform under 2" at 50 yards fairly easily? Sometimes I don't mind tinkering but if I drop $3500 on a 22/32 combo I don't wanna get frustrated because I can't get it to shoot.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 211
pistol champ wrote:
I also shoot lead and get better groups than with the 60gr XTP. You will need that custom expander
or a custom sizing die. I use a custom sizing die and do not need the expander. This gun is accurate,
and cheaper to shoot than 22's.


So a Lyman M Expander won't work? Is it the extra .003" that excludes standard 32 ACP expander?

Is there a custom die maker that has prints on hand for the custom sizing die?


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
zanemoseley wrote:
I guess what I'm getting at is can I work up a load with off the shelf dies, brass and jhp bullets that will perform under 2" at 50 yards fairly easily? Sometimes I don't mind tinkering but if I drop $3500 on a 22/32 combo I don't wanna get frustrated because I can't get it to shoot.



Yes I think you can but it will be expensive to shoot jacketed all the time and when you finally want to shoot lead, all you have to do is find a different sizing die and an expander unless you go the way Pistol Champ went and get a custom die and ignore the expander which might be the best way because then you aren't working the brass so much. If you do this your brass will have to be fired several times before they are up to size though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 211
Funny people talking about $.17 bullets being expensive when we're talking about a $3600 22/32 pistol combo.

So has anyone tried the Lyman .32 M Expander?

Also I did a test to see how my RCBS powder measure would work with extremely light drops, I was dropping 1.7 grains of WST pretty consistently.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
I have an M expander but have not used it yet. I measured the expander and see the first step is .310 and the second step is .314. I will try and submit a picture of the expander insert to illustrate what I'm talking about. I am thinking about taking the insert expander piece (it unscrews) and taking it to a machine shop to have a duplicate made with .002 oversized dimensions. The reason is I think the LSWC bullet might deform/swage a little due to the small size of the bullet and a tight fit for bullet seating. Does that sound right or am not overthinking the sizing/seating issue?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Emmett the part where the expander goes into the brass should all be .314 and the part that is .314 should be .250 long with a small curve on the front so it won't catch the brass and a place on the back to flare the brass so the entire machined area is longer than the .250. If you want to flare in a different step, then the .314 area can be as long as you want and you can adjust how deep it goes into the brass by raising or lowering the die and then use a different tool to flare the brass.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
Thanks for info. I guess I didn't fully understand the earlier discussions. So when I go to the machine shop I want to tell them that what I want is to make the total shaft .314 and the second step area that is currently .314 make sure it is flared in order to not catch on the case lip. What size should the diameter be? I want that step to be .250 in length, and the width .316?, .317? Or do I just want the flare to start at the point where the second step begins? The length of the initial expander die (first step) looks like good. I will tell them to keep that length the same.
To change gears here, for a 9mm expander using LSWC, what dimensions should I look at? Typical 9mm bullet is .356?
Glad I got the info before I wasted a trip to the machine shop. It looks like an easy piece to manufacture. Thanks for the help.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
The tip that is curved so it won't catch on the edge of a case can be any length and should be typical of what is on any expander similar to your picture. After the curve, it should be .314 for .250 inches at which point it should get larger so the case will flare. The flare part is very short. If you want, the part that is .314 can be longer than .250 so you can experiment with how deep you expand your case and then use a different die to flare the tip. The M die you already have will flare the case. If the .314 part of an expander is shoved in very much past .250 inch mark, it will probably bulge the case too much. The base of the bullet is right at .250 and generally when they are loaded, about .010 to .020 is in front of the case so expanding the case below the .250 distance is most likely a waste of time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 10
Ok, thanks for the info. I will try and draw up what we are talking about and show it before I head out to the shop for production. I'm on the road right now and won't be home until the end of the week. If my last message sounded disjointed then I apologize. I was in the Atlanta airport with weather chaos and flight delays all over. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:50 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Wisconsin
fc60 wrote:
Greetings,

For loading small capacity cases, like the 32 ACP, I use a Star.

Excellent uniformity of powder drops.

Also, the Star Machine Works will do their best to supply the proper sizing and expanding dies tailored to your reloading components.

http://www.starmachineworks.com/

Cheers,

Dave


I also bought a Star from same place. The reloader is perfect. Over-engineered, but high quality. As far as accuracy I don't have the issues others do. It is more accurate than my .22. As far as scope mount....that has been an ongoing issue. Even 3 rings do not hold. But if I could do it over again I would still buy the .32 ACP. Who says you cannot buy points? :-)

Chip


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 123
Location: Eastern PA
ChipEck wrote:
fc60 wrote:
Greetings,

For loading small capacity cases, like the 32 ACP, I use a Star.

Excellent uniformity of powder drops.

Also, the Star Machine Works will do their best to supply the proper sizing and expanding dies tailored to your reloading components.

http://www.starmachineworks.com/

Cheers,

Dave


I also bought a Star from same place. The reloader is perfect. Over-engineered, but high quality. As far as accuracy I don't have the issues others do. It is more accurate than my .22. As far as scope mount....that has been an ongoing issue. Even 3 rings do not hold. But if I could do it over again I would still buy the .32 ACP. Who says you cannot buy points? :-)

Chip


I'm also using a Star from the same place. This loader makes great accurate ammo for my Pardini 32acp.
I could not stop my scope from moving so I screwed on a mount to the shroud no problems now. Separate scopes for each barrel so no problem changing from 22lr to 32acp.


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