TargetTalk

A forum to talk about Olympic style shooting, rifle or pistol, 10 meters to 50 meters, and whatever is in between. Hosted by Pilkguns.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
Hi Jakub,
It's hard to tell when the pic of the case is so small, but I think the case mouth may be contacting the shoulder of the expander or the case wall is thicker towards the rim. What brand of brass are you using.
I'm sure we can help
shootaholic


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am
Posts: 12
Hi Shootaholic,

I am using only Lapua brass.

Included simple drawing for better understooding...hope it will be clear.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:46 pm
Posts: 22
Location: West Australia
Hi Jakob,
Ok, from your sketch it looks to me that, you need to raise your expander plug as it's crushing the case. Just give the case mouth a very slight flare so the projectile will seat without shaving lead.
Let us know how that goes.

regards
shootaholic


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:31 am
Posts: 48
I had this problem once. 3 reasons:
1.My calibration/ decapping die was made for .311 bullets.
2. I made the expander 0.4 mm too long.
3. Expander was made of too soft material.
Valve grinding paste took care of nr.1. Yes, it was carbide.
2 and 3 was solved by making a new expander. Drillshaft, highly polished and maximum hardened.
I also used H&N bullets, 98gr, and Lapua brass.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
My guess is that instead of the expander going into the case, it bent the case down. Measure and see if the case is now shorter than normal. If it is, lubricate the inside of your cases before you expand them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:31 am
Posts: 48
Yes, the case bends, because it is to narrow and the friction is to high. Lubing helped me very little and lifetime of the case is low with too much work.
Lubing is a mess and an extra step wich I avoid by not needing it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am
Posts: 12
After troubles with custom expander I did test with standart Lee expanding die.....

Lapua brass, bullet HN 100gr WCHB .314, OAL .985 (shot from revolver), 1,8gr of Lovex D032 (similar burning rate like N320, but double base), taper crimp .325.

On included picture are 5 shots, 25 meters, with supported hand (no Ransom). 3cm/25m group is enough accurate for me.


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HN100WC 1,8gr D032.jpg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Very possibly you do not need as large of a bullet for your revolver and you can get away with a tighter case. In other words, even though when you press your H&N bullet which is quite soft into the case and it squeezes the bullet down, your revolver doesn't care because the barrel is small enough inside diameter for it to work anyway. If this was tried in a semi auto with a factory barrel, it is very unlikely that it would work.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am
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Hi Oldcaster,

my bore is .313, that´s why I suggest to try .314 bullet. Accuracy improved a lot against .313, even with factory expander die. I know, it does not make sense but I think make good combination gun vs ammo is a bit of alchemy with .32 SW:-)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:11 am
Posts: 102
Location: Haymarket, VA
kubikula78 wrote:
Hi Oldcaster,

my bore is .313, that´s why I suggest to try .314 bullet. Accuracy improved a lot against .313, even with factory expander die. I know, it does not make sense but I think make good combination gun vs ammo is a bit of alchemy with .32 SW:-)



.313 bore !?!?! Then your groove would be .320 !?!?!

My 32 s&w l is .305 bore .312 groove


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am
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I am sorry, maybe misunderstanding.....when I push bullet through barrel and then measure the bullet the biggest diameter is .313


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:11 am
Posts: 102
Location: Haymarket, VA
kubikula78 wrote:
I am sorry, maybe misunderstanding.....when I push bullet through barrel and then measure the bullet the biggest diameter is .313


nice groove, what was the bore?(smallest measurement ?)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:31 pm
Posts: 465
Location: B.E. Master indoor & out in WI
Christopher;

You are picking nits :)
We all know what measurement he is stating.
Inside a barrel is lands and grooves.
Technically the lands measurement is the bore.
BUT, that is the rub.
You look for a bullet to fit your groove diameter +.001' or so, which to many would be your BORE diameter, but technically it is TERMED differently.

I am sure you use .312"+ bullets and not .305"+ bullets.

It is just a play on technical descriptions and play on words but we all know what they mean even when not being technically by the book.

To Kubikula78;
I know what you meant and you are right.
Your bore is .313"(just not technically :)

Carry on guys;
Clarence

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:11 am
Posts: 102
Location: Haymarket, VA
C. Perkins wrote:
Christopher;

You are picking nits :)
We all know what measurement he is stating.
Inside a barrel is lands and grooves.
Technically the lands measurement is the bore.
BUT, that is the rub.
You look for a bullet to fit your groove diameter +.001' or so, which to many would be your BORE diameter, but technically it is TERMED differently.

I am sure you use .312"+ bullets and not .305"+ bullets.

It is just a play on technical descriptions and play on words but we all know what they mean even when not being technically by the book.

To Kubikula78;
I know what you meant and you are right.
Your bore is .313"(just not technically :)

Carry on guys;
Clarence



:)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:48 am 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 3:21 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Gainesville, Florida
rmca,
sorry for the belated response but kept forgetting to take picture of rest. It is a modified HySkore red dot pistol rest. I basically took off the rear part, installed all-thread rod, two 2x4" pieces of wood clued together and drilled to fit all thread rod. The rest comes with adjustable feet in the front to aid in leveling it and an adjustable barrel rest (for adjusting elevation). I use the front part of a rifle rest sand bag to rest the butt of pistol on and try to hold the pistol as close to possible in the way I hold it when shooting. I can get very accurate groups with it at 25 yards and sometimes at 50 yards.

I should just buy a 6x pistol scope and use it for 50 yard sighting in (Warne makes some well built quick detachable scope mounts for around $50). Image attached. Best, dipnet

PS: The rubber bands are to hold barrel still for mini reflex sights where you move the dot to the hole of the last bullet fired (simply keep pistol ~rigid when adjusting sight).


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Hy-Score target rest.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 pm
Posts: 932
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Dipnet,

Thank you very much. That image helps a lot.
I was thinking of getting one of those rests, but was unsure that it will be repeatable enough to test from.
Your results prove my fears are unfounded.

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:40 am
Posts: 12
Hi everybody,

finaly I found ammo for my 32SW Long.

HN 100gr WCHB .314, 1,3gr Vectan BA10 (similar burning rate as VV N310), OAL 25,5mm, taper crimp .325, shot from free hand to 25 meters.

After 1st shot close to the line a did 2 clik down, 1 click right and then 9 shots moreless to one hole.


Thanks to everybody on this forum, informations here are very helpful.


Regards
Jakub


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:01 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Jakub,
As long as you can get the H&N bullet you are fine but if your access disappears or they get too expensive, you can get a mold number 323 that is made by Saeco and the bullets from this mold will shoot not only as well but for me to the same point of aim as the H&N with the exact same load.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 76
An update on 32acp loads for the HP.

I started off with the recipe that features here; primarily T&B 60(2) gr bullet, 1.6gr VVN310, OAL .885 and crimp .325

I have modified the recipe: OAL now 0.855. At .885 the shoulder was engaging the rifling making it impossible to eject manually and I had some odd occurrences.
I changed the crimp to 0.334. I am using starline brass (wall thickness 0.011) and with a crimp of 0.325 - the bullet was getting crushed to (0.325-0.022=0.303). Adding .314 plus .022 (two walls of 0.011) gives 0.316 so an currently squeezing down a couple of thou.

The result is MV ~ 960-980fps (possibly a little hasty)
10 shot group: X ring @ 25yds, 10 @50

It leads a bit but still held X ring after 2-300 rounds.

I ran the numbers through quickload - it predicts a mv of 985 (so pretty close).

If I want to get to 700fps - QL predicts 1.3gr. (1.5 ~ 800fps)

I use the 'arrondo?' micrometer powder drop for the Dillon presses so the drop consistency shouldn't be a problem (but +/- 0.05gr is a big %) so I may dial down the powder and see what happens.

Chilly here today , -9C and a skiff of snow (as they say) but back in Calgary it was -31C (inc windchill) (16F / -24F respectively for those who are metric confounded) so I am ahead! As as it will be 18C (mid 60s) on Friday, more testing and a labradar video...

~Zip


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
If you have trouble with brass, try some Remington or Magtech. Both of them are thinner and might give you more leeway without bulging the case so much.


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