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 Post subject: Pardini HP 32, ammo talk
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 196
I am using Hornady factory 60 grain XTP in my Pardini 32, and it works great. Feeds perfect, no issues, and it's accurate. At one range I go to you can only shoot lead rounds. I tried Magtech 32 lead round nose and it worked fine, in that it fed and fired with no issues. Unfortunately it's accuracy out of my Pardini was not anywhere near as good as the Hornady. The Hornady holds same hole at 25 yards and this Magtech is more like 3" at 25 yards. It's not accurate enough for bullseye. I just ordered some Buffalo Bore in a 32 ACP flat nose lead (it's the only other lead only round I could find so far), and I will see if that is any better.
I would cast, or buy lead bullets, or buy complete factory lead only cartridges, but I don't know if there is anything out there that is bullseye accurate. If you have any combo for lead only, please share (for 32 ACP only). The Hornady is what I will use for outdoors and ranges where jacketed is OK, but I need some lead only for this range.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:50 am
Posts: 111
Location: Tempe, AZ
I use 75gr Rimrock premium lead flat point bullets with 2.0gr of Titegroup.

The 0.313" bullets shoot about 2.5" at 50 yards, as compared to 1.0" for the Hornady XTPs over 2.3gr of Titegroup. This is fine for the short line and for international events at 25 m/yd.

I just got some of the same 75gr bullets sized to 0.314 that should shoot even better, but I haven't tried them yet. These can be ordered by phone for the same price as the 0.313, you just need to call and ask for them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
The only cast bullet from commercial molds at this time that even come close to what you want are the Lyman 313249. It is 85 grain and comes out of the mold very close to .313 or maybe a hair less. They are only available in 2 cavity. This bullet will shoot around 3 inches at 50 yards for 10 shots but it needs to be .314 or a bit above that. I have tried an Accurate 85 SWC mold but the base is too long and it gets upset when seated into the case far enough so the rifling doesn't push the bullet back when chambering. It is much more accurate than the Lyman but 10% or so random flyers make it a no go. I cut .030 off the base to see if that would improve it and I got rid of the flyers but made the groups enlarge too much. Accurate has a truncated cone bullet that is made for the ACP but I am leery of that shape. I would like to try some but don't want to spend the money just to find out. At this time I am thinking about designing my own based on what a .45 caliber Saeco 069 is shaped like only reduced to .314. Until I get it and try it maybe someone else will find the best bullet. The important part is that the base of the bullet can't be longer than about .250 and I do say about because I am not positive of this measurement but expect it to be about right. The bullet can't be seated very far in front of the brass because it will hit the rifling and the nose can't be very long either because of magazine length and depends on the shape as to how long. Everyone who is working on this needs to just keep updating until something works out well so we can all benefit.


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 Post subject: Dardas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 196
Dardas is offering a 98 grain wadcutter in 0.314. Any thoughts on this? I assume it was designed for a S&W but not sure if it could work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:50 am
Posts: 111
Location: Tempe, AZ
I can almost guarantee that the loaded round won't fit in the magazine.


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 Post subject: 32 acp
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
What are you guys using for OAL for the different bullets?
I'm using 0.895"
What is the crimp size?
I'm using 0.330" Tapered
I'm using Winchester primers.
What are the rest of you using?
What is your velocity that you are shooting at. I know that you give powder type and amount but if I am using a different powder it is easy for me to adjust to a velocity.
My gun shoots factory Hornady 60gr at 1003'/sec 10' from muzzle. 1.5" 10 shot group at 50 yards.
My load of 1.85 gr VV N-310, wsp, 0.330" crimp, Hornady 60gr XTP goes 905'/sec. and gave me 2.5" 10 shot groups at 50 yards.
My load of 1.8 gr VV N-310, wsp, 0.330" crimp, Hornady 60gr XTP goes 920'/sec. and gave me 2.2" 10 shot groups groups at 50 yards.
My load of 1.6 gr VV N-310, wsp, 0.330" crimp, Rimrock 75gr 0.313" goes 882'/sec. and gave me 3.7" 10 shot groups at 50 yards. Slight barrel leading after 200 rounds.

I'm also interested in finding an accurate lead combination that does not lead up my barrel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
The Rimrock bullets will be quite hard because the customers demand that. If they had a BHN around 10 there would be less problem and if they were .314 it would probably help also. Likely if they were softer they would be more accurate also. My lead loads have been from 600 to 800 fps and so far the 800 has been the most accurate but there are too many other variables to put too much faith in that. Yesterday I ordered a mold that I designed myself that resembles the shape of a 45ACP 069 and is .314 I expect it to weigh from 65 to 70 grains with soft lead.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 196
I shot some Buffalo bore 32 lead flat nose recently. Not as good as Hornady, but it was the 2nd most accurate I have next to that 60 gr Hornady. It held the 10 ring, not quite straight X ring off the bench like Hornady......but it's good for indoor range where lead only is required.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
I got my mold that I ordered from Accurate yesterday and I molded up a couple of hundred. It weighs right at 62 grains with an alloy that is around 10 BHN. They look tiny and it isn't easy to handle them when loading or sizing but they molded easily. I was a little worried about keeping the big block 5 cavity mold hot enough to make good bullets but it worked fine and I could go as fast as I could not ever having to pause from getting the mold too hot.

Since there isn't much data for a 60 grain lead bullet, I only loaded 5 at a time so I can see if there are possibilities of accuracy and whether I need to go faster or not. I will shoot them tomorrow but shooting 5 in a group will only give an idea of what they will do. I used 231, Accurate #5 and Power Pistol all of which are a bit slower than I have been using and expect that I may have to go around 800 fps for best accuracy however I have been wrong several times since playing with this gun and will have to wait to see what happens.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
I went out today and at least got some velocities and a few ideas. It was cold and I didn't want to sit there and shoot but finished up 9 different groups with 3 different powders with the 60 grain SWC bullet I designed for the Pardini.
The bullet is from Accurate molds and is now in their catalog if you are interested in getting one. I would suggest you contact me first and I will send you some of the bullets to try so you can make sure they will work for you before you buy. The bullet is .366 long and .315 in diameter. The base is right at .220 long and the bottom is flat. The velocities and group sizes are below. They are all 5 shot groups and the OAL was .870, the brass was CBC and the primer was CCI. The bullets were sized to .3145 and NRA 50/50 was the lube used. I doubt if much of this matters but I might as well list all that I did. I do think soft lead and soft lube will be important but since some of these loads are near 1000 fps, hard lube might work just as well.
All 5 shot groups at 50 yards off sandbags with an 8 power pistol scope.
#1. 2.0 grains 231 890fps 1.85 inch group
#2. 2.2 grains 231 949fps 4.150
#3. 2.4 grains 231 1046fps 1.623

#4. 2.5 grains # 5 767fps 2.736
#5. 2.7 grains # 5 820fps 2.208
#6. 2.9 grains # 5 829fps 2.114 This group was .941 for 4 shots and the SD was 9.9

#7. 2.0 grains Power Pistol 750fps 2.607
#8. 2.2 grains Power Pistol 812fps 3.53 This group was 1.53 except for the 1 shot SD 25.4
#9. 2.4 grains Power Pistol 865 2.764
All of these powder amounts were dropped with a Dillon 550 with a small powder measure that I modified and I don't know how well it measured any of these amounts because I didn't check but some of the velocities especially with Accurate #5 were very consistent and none seemed very bad so I think they all worked well.
Until these are shot with at least 10 shots to a group it is hard to say which will be the best choice but I will shoot more of all three of these powders and might change the OAL back and forth a bit also. I wasn't going to try any faster powder but was talked into it by a friend who is also knowledgeable about working up loads so I think I will try some Accurate # 2 next time along with a pull down powder called Russian Unique which has worked real well with 32 long. Maybe I'll try Clays also though it is flaky.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 196
Oldcaster, great info. Great results too. Under 2" off a sandbag is impressive.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:46 am
Posts: 415
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Greetings Old Caster,

Would you kindly quote the mould number you purchased from Accurate Molds?

Or, post a link to the bullet design.

With kind regards,

Dave

Did some research. Is this the mould design you are testing?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 060A-D.png


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Yes, this is the one Dave. If you would like, I could send you some to try before you buy. I am not getting to the range to test like I would like to because of difficulty walking but I felt good enough to mold 1400 bullets recently. I have had loads sitting for over a week waiting for me to test. Just send me your address and I will send you some bullets and don't worry about shipping because it isn't enough money to make it worth exchanging back and forth. -- Bill --


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
pistol champ -- FC60 -- bullets sent. Let us all know how they work when it gets warm enough to use them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
Old caster,

Thanks so much. I will post my results when the weather gets warmer.

What velocity do you think I should be loading to?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
You can look at the velocities that I printed above and the accuracy of each and go from there. I am going to guess that 850 might be an area that would be a starting point.

I don't know how slow an individual gun can go without getting alibis but I am pretty sure that a 60 grain bullet at 1000 fps is what it was designed for.

I would sure like to find a load that is reasonably accurate that is a lot slower for 25 yards but that will be trial and error to see how slow you can go with the gun still being reliable. I wonder if it would have been a good idea if the counter weight on the slide were adjustable.

When Dave gets around to testing we will get more ideas also because I would guess that he has the intention of testing out of a barrel fixture and not a gun which gives a better idea of what the actual bullet barrel combination is capable of.

I am ready to test some more loads as I feel pretty good now but of course it is going to be record cold next week here. I am hoping for this Saturday. -- Bill --


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 196
Oldcaster, many thanks for your efforts in this new design. From all of the testing everyone has done with Hornady and some other bullets, it does appear these like to go 1000-1050 fps for the most accuracy. With this being such a low recoil round I don't mind that velocity at all. It doesn't kick much anyway. Nice work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
Old caster,

I got your package today, wow what a nice casting job. I will size them to 0.314 and wait till the weather warms up a little.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 586
Location: Chesterfield Missouri
Murph, save your brass because after the reviews come in from all the people trying to get this gun to shoot accurately with lead bullets, you will probably become a caster and reloader writing on the net what works and what doesn't. It's a great hobby.-- Bill --


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:35 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Eastern PA
Old Caster,

I just loaded up 10 rounds at a OAL of 0.860 because any longer the bullet touches the taper leading into the barrel. I can only have 0.0337" of the top band sticking out above the case. You must have cases that are closer to the maximum case length of 0.680". I have a lot that are 10 to 15 thousands shorter.

I just shot them to see if the gun functioned as we are having wind and rain today with the temperature dropping to zero. I'll load up some more and post the data when the weather is better.

When you ordered you mold what diameter did you specify?
Did you get the 5 hole aluminum?


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